Question about Keytones

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Question about Keytones


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Old 01-28-2013, 15:10   #1
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Ok, I need some clarification on the difference between Ketones and Ketosis. Are they related? I thought that Ketosis is bad for you. Also, how do you know if you are burning keytones instead of glucose. Currently I am eating about 80 to 100 grams of carbs a day. My meter readings have been in the normal range so it looks like I have found my safe limit for now.

Also, just wanted to thank you all for the information on this forum. It has really been a help.

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Old 01-28-2013, 16:10   #2
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Ketones and ketosis are related, ketones are formed by the process ketosis. Dietary ketosis is perfectly safe and a natural human means of existing. If your BG level is to high (above 280 I think) there is a possibility that your body may produce ketones in response to a lack of energy getting into your cells. This is dangerous and needs to be avoided.

Eating 80-100 grams of carbs a day should not lead to ketosis, I think 50 grams a day is the line that has to be crossed in order to achieve ketosis.

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Old 01-28-2013, 18:48   #3
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For more technical information on ketosis you can read

Ketosis

One other housekeeping issue: Ketosis versus DKA?

In an earlier post I explained the difference between nutritional ketosis (NK) and diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA). If this distinction is not clear, I’d suggest giving this earlier post a quick skim for a refresher. DKA is a pathologic (i.e., harmful) state that results from the complete or near absence of insulin. This occurs in the setting of type 1 diabetes or very end-stage type 2 diabetes, and often as the result of a physiologic insult (e.g., an infection) where the patient is not receiving sufficient insulin to bring glucose into their cells. A person with a normal pancreas, regardless of how long they fast (including the fellow I reference above who fasted for 382 days!) or how much they restrict carbohydrates, can not enter DKA because even a trace amount of insulin will keep B-OHB levels below about 7 or 8 mM, well below the threshold to develop the pathologic acid-base abnormalities associated with DKA. Let me reiterate, it is physiologically impossible to induce DKA in anyone that does not have T1D or very, very, very late-stage T2D with pancreatic “burnout.”

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Old 01-28-2013, 19:11   #4
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Thanks for the link. Looks like it is time for me to start reading. It's amazing how complex we are.

I was also reading somewhere that by 2020 3 out of 4 people will be diabetic. Is this right? Seem's kind of high to me. If it is true then we defiantly have a major health issue in the US. Something has to be wrong with the food here.

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Old 01-28-2013, 20:00   #5
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Interesting read; From the same link

The reason a starving person can live for 40-60 days is precisely because we can turn fat into ketones and convert ketones into substrate for the Krebs Cycle in the mitochondria of our neurons. In fact, the more fat you have on your body, the longer you can survive. As an example of this, you may want to read this remarkable case report of a 382 day medically supervised fast (with only water and electrolytes)! If we had to rely on glucose, we’d die in a few days. If we could only rely on protein, we’d live a few more days but become completely debilitated with muscle wasting.

The graph below, also from the Cahill and Veech paper, shows the blood chemistry of a person starving for 40 days. Within about 3 days, a starving person’s level of glucose stops falling. Within about 10 days they reach a steady-state equilibrium with B-OHB levels exceeding glucose levels and offsetting most of the brain’s need for glucose. In fact, the late George Cahill did an experiment many years ago (probably would never get IRB approval to do such an experiment today) to demonstrate how ketones can offset glucose in the brain. Subjects with very high levels of B-OHB (about 5-7 mM) were injected with insulin until glucose levels reached 1 mM (about 19 mg/dL)! A normal person would fall into a coma at glucose levels below about 40 mg/dL and die by the time blood glucose reached 1 mM. These subjects were completely asymptomatic and 100% neurologically functional.

The last point I’ll make on the starving patient is that, as you can see in the figure below, the glucose level normalizes at about 65-70 mg/dL (about 3.7 mM) within days of fasting, despite no sources of exogenous glucose. Why? Because with so much fat being converted into B-OHB and acetoacetic acid by the liver, a significant amount of glycerol (the 3-carbon backbone of triglycerides) is liberated and converted by the liver into glycogen. As an aside, this is why someone in nutritional ketosis – even if eating zero carbohydrates – still has about 50-70% of a normal glycogen level, as demonstrated by muscle biopsies in such subjects.

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