Keto Diet and Muscle Glycogen

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Keto Diet and Muscle Glycogen


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Old 08-27-2013, 10:46   #1
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Interesting article on muscle glycogen while on a keto diet. I'm finding for me this works to my advantage. I don't have a blood ketone meter, I need to convince myself I need one.

Ketones and Carbohydrates: Can they co-exist? The Eating Academy | Peter Attia, M.D. The Eating Academy | Peter Attia, M.D.

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Old 08-27-2013, 11:10   #2
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Very interesting read and I am so glad that he is exploring this territory.

Unfortunately, for myself it is utterly irrelevant. At 60 years and after a year or two of virtually zero exercise, I've finally gotten myself back to a mere FIFTEEN MINUTE workout every other day.

Pretty sure that that and all other functions can happen just fine on FFAs and ketones and other than keeping glycogen OUT of my liver, I don't think it's anything I need to even think about right now - unless my wife talks me into the "Insanity" workout which she just acquired! (Somehow, I think that is just so appropriately named, but call me jealous.)

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64 Years
DX: 9/2009 A1C=10.7
A1C 2/2010: 6.7 (DX + 4 months)
A1C 5/2010: 6.0 (DX + 8 months)
A1C 8/2010: 5.7 (DX + 11 months)
A1C 11/2010: 5.1 (DX + 14 months)
A1C 9/2011: 5.6 (DX + 2 years)
A1C 7/2012: 5.5 (DX + 2 years 10 months)
Diet: Approximately C:10;P:15;F:75 (as % calories)
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Exercise: Not much. Stairs at home & work. 10 min dumbells most days
NO MEDS, No Highs, No Lows
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Old 08-27-2013, 11:16   #3
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I was always a big guy before Dx, so I guess I have a goal of regaining some of the muscle I've lost. So far it's working but finding it hard to get to the gym right now.

Better you than me on the insanity workout, not sure my heart would stand for such a thing. They got a new machine at the gym, Jacob's Ladder, it's calling me, what I don't know.

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Old 08-27-2013, 11:27   #4
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One thing I find frustrating is that I did work out pretty hard one solid hour first thing in the morning, 7 days a week for about a year after diagnosis. However, most of that time I was not yet eating VHF, so WAY too much glucose going on. Even though I gained some strength and stamina such as dumbbells going from 15 to 30 pounds and taking on higher weights on many machines, I found it EXTREMELY difficult to actually add muscle. I distinctly felt like it fell off just as fast as it grew.

By the time I was firmly into VHF, my period of exercise was ending (life happened). However, I "feel" now like muscle decreases VERY slowly if at all during periods of no exercise and very minimal exercise shows good and lasting effects almost immediately. Part of that might be illusory since there is so much less fat under my skin with VHF that you're basically looking right at the muscle. Mind you, I've never done much "go to failure" or really high intensity stuff. That might be different.

BTW, I don't think my wife will actually talk me into "Insanity" (with a capital I, that is), that was just an "if"!

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Salim Morgan, T2
64 Years
DX: 9/2009 A1C=10.7
A1C 2/2010: 6.7 (DX + 4 months)
A1C 5/2010: 6.0 (DX + 8 months)
A1C 8/2010: 5.7 (DX + 11 months)
A1C 11/2010: 5.1 (DX + 14 months)
A1C 9/2011: 5.6 (DX + 2 years)
A1C 7/2012: 5.5 (DX + 2 years 10 months)
Diet: Approximately C:10;P:15;F:75 (as % calories)
Ketogenic (Most of the time)
Exercise: Not much. Stairs at home & work. 10 min dumbells most days
NO MEDS, No Highs, No Lows
Grandkids: 20
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Old 08-27-2013, 13:57   #5
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I think my body is expert at converting protein to glycogen, even on a ketogenic diet ... I did 30 min recumbent bike at "fat-burning (ie subaerobic) level, last night before my weight work. Woke at 74! Makes me wonder ... now I must explore this more.

But, I HATE recumbent biking!!! Dayum.

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Old 08-27-2013, 14:05   #6
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The more anaerobic work you do the more muscle glycogen you burn, the more glucose your body will pull out of your blood stream.

If you weigh yourself everyday you will see the difference on the scale. I will lose several pounds by the end of the next day after strength training then gain it all back before my next work out. Glycogen and water weight.

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Old 08-27-2013, 14:48   #7
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Anaerobic as in, SUB-aerobic, or SUPER-aerobic, Marty?

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Old 08-27-2013, 14:59   #8
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Exercise beyond your body's ability to supply enough oxygen to burn fats. Lipids will not burn with out oxygen, glucose (glycogen) will. The way to do it aerobically is to go beyond your VO2 max which is hard to do and sustain. Isometrics and heavy weights are much easier to do to burn muscle glycogen. Its the initial push, pull, lifting at maximum strength that burns glycogen. You don't have enough immediate oxygen in the area of the muscle contraction to accommodate lipid oxidation to generate the power needed to move the object. If you do light weights your body can utilize the oxygen to use lipids instead of glycogen. Its a moving scale of which gets burned while your working out though.

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Old 08-27-2013, 15:13   #9
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That was my thinking, too!

Oddly the stupid Precor bike claims "fat-burning" is a range BENEATH "aerobic."

My intention is to toy with HIIT on it ...

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Old 08-27-2013, 15:49   #10
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Yeah, on first glance, I can't see any advantage in shuffling muscle glycogen in and out. First, there is nothing I do or need to do in my life which needs anaerobic muscle contractions. Although I'll never on a stage, muscle does tone and grow with less than burnout exercise.

I'd get no particular "thrill" in eating those carbs to replenish glycogen after depleting it and then of course there is the constant danger of overshooting and having too much glucose around - the very thing I've been working to avoid for 4 years.

So, overall, as far as muscle glycogen is concerned, I prefer to just "let sleeping dogs lie". I don't think I need it for anything.

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Salim Morgan, T2
64 Years
DX: 9/2009 A1C=10.7
A1C 2/2010: 6.7 (DX + 4 months)
A1C 5/2010: 6.0 (DX + 8 months)
A1C 8/2010: 5.7 (DX + 11 months)
A1C 11/2010: 5.1 (DX + 14 months)
A1C 9/2011: 5.6 (DX + 2 years)
A1C 7/2012: 5.5 (DX + 2 years 10 months)
Diet: Approximately C:10;P:15;F:75 (as % calories)
Ketogenic (Most of the time)
Exercise: Not much. Stairs at home & work. 10 min dumbells most days
NO MEDS, No Highs, No Lows
Grandkids: 20
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