Lipid Profile Numbers

Go Back   The Diabetes Forum Support Community For Diabetics Online > Diabetes Forum Start Here > Diabetes Forum Lounge


Diabetes Forum Lounge The Diabetes Forum lounge is the more social area of the community. Please feel free to drop in, and discuss anything thatís on your mind. Use this area for off topic discussions, making friends and being social.


Like Tree5Likes
  • 2 Post By skb
  • 2 Post By John.in.France
  • 1 Post By John.in.France

Lipid Profile Numbers


Closed Thread
 
Shared Thread Thread Tools
Old 08-25-2012, 10:24   #1
John.in.France
Guest
Default Lipid Profile Numbers

I'm a simple Scotsman with some grasp of the three Rs - reading, righting and rithmatic! (honest - I was even considered quite good at sums)

I've now got 9 sets of figures for my lipid profile for the last two years. They are made up of four numbers. Total, HDL, LDL and Triclycerides. Now I have this strange idea that when someone quotes a total, followed by three components, the total of the three components should equal the total.

Need I say it - they don't! In every case, the total of the components exceeds the total cholesterol by quite a bit.

Can someone tell me why this is?

Ta, John

 
Old 08-25-2012, 10:43   #2
skb
Diabetic
 
skb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Mumbai, INDIA
Posts: 2,680

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 2007

4077 likes received
2435 likes given
Default

That's because the Total Cholesterol is a sum of the LDL, HDL & vLDL particles. But since the vLDL is itself calculated as 1/5th of the TGs the total and this calculated total will differ a bit.

foxl and John.in.France like this.
__________________
A1c ~ 5.4
Follow LC/HF diet since Aug 2010
Control only with diet/exercise. No meds.

Blog - Metabolically Challenged
skb is offline  
Old 08-25-2012, 11:05   #3
John.in.France
Guest
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by skb View Post
That's because the Total Cholesterol is a sum of the LDL, HDL & vLDL particles. But since the vLDL is itself calculated as 1/5th of the TGs the total and this calculated total will differ a bit.
Now the numbers make sense - ta!

Not sure about the logic behind the split though! No doubt we are relying on the traditional "average" ratio which will be wrong for most folk!

 
 
Old 08-25-2012, 11:17   #4
skb
Diabetic
 
skb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Mumbai, INDIA
Posts: 2,680

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 2007

4077 likes received
2435 likes given
Default

Daytona had posted a nice link the other day for an in-depth understanding of the lipid profile. I'm posting the link again for your benefit.

The straight dope on cholesterol

__________________
A1c ~ 5.4
Follow LC/HF diet since Aug 2010
Control only with diet/exercise. No meds.

Blog - Metabolically Challenged
skb is offline  
Old 08-25-2012, 11:36   #5
John.in.France
Guest
Default

I used the 20% of triglycerides and got a perfect fit for all except my first set of figures. That came out too high (140 against the reported 136).

What was different about it? It was done in the hospital in Autun, whereas the others were all done in the local lab in Chateau Chinon. Did the hospital perchance actually test for VLDL rather than simply play with numbers? Good question - or is it?

I wondered if it's worth the trip to Autun next time. If we are going to get data, I'd much rather it meant something rather than number games. However, given the actual significance of lipid data, I'll probably decide to save the fuel and make do with the local nonsense

Thanks again for the equation!

John

 
Old 08-25-2012, 14:21   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 1,288

Member Type
Type Pre
Diagnosed in 2005

1123 likes received
692 likes given
Default

There are two formulas used to calculate LDL cholesterol. LDL is estimated not measure in standard lipids panels.

LDL Cholesterol Calculator

Calculator for mmol measure

LDL Cholesterol Calculator

kantim is offline  
Old 08-25-2012, 15:36   #7
John.in.France
Guest
Default

Thanks,

Looking through the lab reports, yep, the LDL is calculated using the Friedewald formula.

The only one that doesn't fit is the first one, done at the hospital and for which I've got only the figures, not the actual report. I suppose it's just possible that that figure was tested for rather than calculated but since the lab had the results (which was more than I did ) - shown as the previous value in their next report, somehow I doubt it.


So, what we get is a figure for HDL and Triglycerides.


The other two numbers, are someone's game of statistics based on the figures from a sample of folk with generally unsatisfactory numbers a bit more than forty years ago.


Oh good! - that's going to be really useful since it'll let the doctor prescribe a nice healthy statin to reduce the LDL number that is highly suspect.


I'm impressed!
- NOT!

Thank you both for your information which has cleared up the issue for me even if I dislike intensely the answer it gives me!


John


Shanny and foxl like this.
 
Old 08-25-2012, 21:38   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: California, USA
Posts: 2,968

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 2009

4442 likes received
528 likes given
Default

I don't pay attention to lipid numbers and never would unless they were in some very, very unusal range like LDL over 300. I think it's a waste of time.

A VAP test is probably the only one really worth something. If it comes back "large, fluffy" LDL, just forget the rest of the numbers unless as I said they are way, way out of range.

It is little else than mega-profit making nonsense.

__________________
Salim Morgan, T2
64 Years
DX: 9/2009 A1C=10.7
A1C 2/2010: 6.7 (DX + 4 months)
A1C 5/2010: 6.0 (DX + 8 months)
A1C 8/2010: 5.7 (DX + 11 months)
A1C 11/2010: 5.1 (DX + 14 months)
A1C 9/2011: 5.6 (DX + 2 years)
A1C 7/2012: 5.5 (DX + 2 years 10 months)
Diet: Approximately C:10;P:15;F:75 (as % calories)
Ketogenic (Most of the time)
Exercise: Not much. Stairs at home & work. 10 min dumbells most days
NO MEDS, No Highs, No Lows
Grandkids: 20
smorgan is offline  
Old 08-26-2012, 08:40   #9
John.in.France
Guest
Default

@ smorgan.

The more I think about it, the more I'm inclined to agree that the lipid profile is pretty meaningless.

What we get is:
  1. A figure for total Cholesterol
  2. A figure for HDL as a component of 1
  3. A figure for Triglycerides - independent of 1
  4. That means that the difference between 1 and 2 is LDL but we then allocate a proportion of this to VLDL - using a figure calculated based on a study from more than 40 years ago and calculated from the Triglyerides. This figure isn't shown in the lab report, all they show is the balance as LDL.
Now, consider. Statins have an impact on LDL but very little on Triglyerides. So, down the track after a few months on statins, we have this picture.
  1. A reduction in Total Cholesterol
  2. No change in HDL
  3. No change in Triglycerides
  4. A reduction in LDL but if the 20% of Triglycerides is a valid indicator of VLDL, the proportion of VLDL has increased and all we've achieved is a reduction in an innocuous element. We're worse off than before?
If on the other hand, the statin attacks fluffy LDL and VLDL equally, the allocation of 20% of triglycerides is meaningless, so why bother doing it!

Am I being too cynical in suggesting that it's a simple con to allow the perpetuation of a discredited myth? (and the sale of statins?)

What a waste of time and money (mine!)

Shanny likes this.
 
Old 08-26-2012, 12:27   #10
skb
Diabetic
 
skb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Mumbai, INDIA
Posts: 2,680

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 2007

4077 likes received
2435 likes given
Default

The 'reading, righting & rithmatic' seems right.

__________________
A1c ~ 5.4
Follow LC/HF diet since Aug 2010
Control only with diet/exercise. No meds.

Blog - Metabolically Challenged
skb is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lipid Clinic Strawberry Diabetes 45 05-26-2012 01:02
Lipid Numbers within 8 days manunamdev1 Diabetes 6 03-13-2012 14:14
Profile pic kimbeau Diabetesforum Site Feedback and Help Desk 9 01-22-2012 22:35
Profile pic kimbeau Introduce Yourself 2 09-10-2011 23:22

LEGAL NOTICE
By using this Website, you agree to abide by our Terms and Conditions (the "Terms"). This notice does not replace our Terms, which you must read in full as they contain important information. You must not post any defamatory, unlawful or undesirable content, or any content copied from a third party, on the Website. You must not copy material from the Website except in accordance with the Terms. This Website gives users an opportunity to share information only and is not intended to contain any advice which you should rely upon. It does not replace the need to take professional or other advice. We have no liability to you or any other person in respect of any content on this Website.


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:53.




Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.