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I really wonder about some diab. education!!!!!!!!

6K views 35 replies 17 participants last post by  GretchenRS 
#1 ·
Met a guy of around 70ish at the gym this morning. He was complaining as he slogged away on the cross trainer that since he had been put on once a day insulin a week ago his blood sugar has just been going up and up and this morning before coming to the gym, with no food, it was 29 which may be around 522 I think. Along with another lady I was talking him out of exercising at this level and it turns out he had no idea that high blood sugar could end up, if unchecked with a hospital bed. He thought only low blood sugar could make a person pass out. He did stop the machine and get off but was a little grumpy with us for interfering which I get with blood sugar that high. He said he was feeling "a bit fuzzy headed".

He said his Doc had taken him off Metformin when he put him on insulin but left him on Galvus which seems back to front to me?? Anyway we talked him into going to his diabetic educator (didn't seem keen to go to his Doc) but we couldn't talk him out of driving even though the other lady was willing to drive him. Aparently when the Doc gave him insulin he also gave him the name of the diabetic educator but he hadn't been yet.

How can they let a man leave the surgery with insulin but no idea of it's potential and how can a man have diabetes for 11 years and not know the perils of really high blood sugar?
 
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#3 ·
Sadly I think that most doctors don't expect diabetics to take an active roll in controlling their disease. Probably because so many don't. So doctors just write the rx and that is that.

Good that you suggested he at least go to the diabetic educator, hope he can get some help there. Or from there back to his dr for more care.

I honestly think those of us who come here are the exception rather than the rule. So many diabetics accept the ADA guidelines which we know for most are not the best way to go, and/or blindly follow their doctors directions which aren't much better. Others are just plain in denial and since the damage is silent for so many years they believe it won't happen to them. When it does, its too late....


 
#4 · (Edited)
How can they let a man leave the surgery with insulin but no idea of it's potential and how can a man have diabetes for 11 years and not know the perils of really high blood sugar?
I went 12 years without a clue. All I was told was "take these 3 pills twice a day.
I only found this place for information while I was surfing for ecigs.

But then the VA doc ignored my blood sugar readings of 250 to 368 mg/dl for 3 years or so until a standin doc noticed it.
 
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#6 ·
The nurse from my Doctor's office called yesterday, and said my doctor wants me to see a dietitian. I said no thanks. And told her why, I am eating low carb high fat and my BG is going down, and from what I hear from others most dietitians are telling diabetics to eat too many carbs. She said 'That's fine, I'll tell the doctor." :) Hope that is the end of it.

Gretchen
 
#8 ·
Hi Gretchen...you are right. In my single meeting I was told I NEED to eat a piece of toast daily, fruit, oatmeal, Juice, ..which I was doing till I found this list...Im so glad I found this list because without it I'd probably still be eating that crap or being extremely discouraged because my numbers just wont act right because im eating that stuff.

It is amazing to me the establishment does not read lists like this and have pride just to be in the "KNOW". If i didn't have so many years wrapped up in network engineering I would become a diabetic specialist person of some sort. If i was one of those people I would cruise lists just like this one so I could be intelligent in training or helping new diabetics. I just don't understand how folks can basically just not give a damn. :mad:
 
#7 ·
Thats a scary story. Daughter works in Cardiac Rehab, they will not let any one work out above 180 and will not let any one leave their place with a BG level below 100. Liability for an accident afterwards supersedes health.
 
#9 ·
That is a very sad situation Hil. This man obviously has no idea how to use insulin because if he did his number would not have been that high. Also, I have learned from experience that just taking the insulin alone doesn't necessarily bring down those numbers. You must eat something for the insulin to work on. I've taken my basal and bolus insulin in the morning, got busy and didn't eat anything right away and my numbers really didn't go down all that much. If I eat something within a reasonable time I don't have that problem.

When is the world going to wake up? Too many will die when it was just so easy to give them the information that could keep their life going without complication.

Sad.
 
#12 ·
When is the world going to wake up? Too many will die when it was just so easy to give them the information that could keep their life going without complication.

Sad.
Well, here is a big part of the problem. This morning's Fact Check Friday tweet from the ADA:
______________________________________________
MYTH: People with diabetes need to follow a special diet.

FACT: People with diabetes benefit from the same healthy diet that is good for everyone else.*

*Plenty of whole grains, fruits and vegetables with a limited amount of fat and refined sugar.
______________________________________

:eek:
Is it any wonder the drs don't know what to tell us to eat when the main organization dedicated to helping diabetics doesn't have a clue??
 
#10 ·
I think the problem with dietitians (and some doctors) is this: they are trained in what is good nutrition for normal people. But apparently they are not trained in the disease process of diabetes. Nor are they trained in how the digestive system and body organs utilize the food you eat. If they were, even common sense would tell you that feeding carbohydrates to a diabetic is no better than giving him/her spoonfuls of sugar.

As for the poor gentleman above, it seems everyone that treats this man "assumes" that all the other medical professionals he has come in contact with have instructed him on his use of insulin etc. Or maybe he was supposed to have someone educate him before he left the hospital (an oversight). But sounds like he needs to find a better doctor. And to cut the medical profession some slack here, this gentleman may have been confused and forgotten some vital instructions he was given.

Gretchen
 
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#11 · (Edited)
The docs can be blamed for a lot of our problems....but....my friend's husband had a heart attack and found out he had diabetes. For 6 months he did real well and then started sneaking around eating things he shouldn't. Then it was a game on eat what he wanted for 5 months and the last month before the A1c eat better. Makes no sense. Another friend eats what she wants(she is 69) and takes uncalculated insulin. Does not match it with what she eats and then can't go to work because it is too high. She says at her age it doesn't matter...yea right. Another friend eats what she wants and takes insulin but does not calculate carbs either. These are all "educated people" but obviously not in taking care of themselves. We all know here that you can learn to take care of yourself if you want to. It is not always easy and sometimes definitely fun. We have a small family. We have an only child that lives cross country. My husband and I are both only children. So it's just us. While we are still able to take care of ourselves...we will. I definitely don't want to be a burden so will take care of myself as best as I know how while I can.
 
#13 ·
Right - I'm not cutting the medical professions any slack - blindly teaching what they were taught is copping out. Labeling a patient non-compliant when all they do is try to make it with the medical advice they've been given, refusing to take responsibility for their own recommendations? Any damn fool should recognize that if carbs raise blood sugar, then carbs should be deleted from the diabetic diet. But the ADA, with its bountiful funding from agri-business, food industry & big pharma, will continue to push grains & other unhealthy (for diabetics) foods, regardless of the consequences to the patients, as long as their benefactors continue to reap the big profits.

Because of all this 'conventional wisdom' that fats are bad and people must eat grains/fruit to be healthy, I finally had to email a few pertinent links to our kids to get them to shut the hell up about the way we eat. Thankfully they have had the brains to pipe down.
 
#14 ·
I think the hardest part for my daughter to accept is that I can eat any meat, and the fattier foods. She still has it in her head that saturated fats are BAD. But a couple of days ago I suggested that we buy whole milk for my grandson, instead of the 1% we had been getting. When I explained to her how skim milk is made by removing all the milk solids and then adding back synthetic vitamins, she "got it". We are both lactose intolerant. When I explained to her how the higher the fat content in the dairy product, the less lactose, she finally "got it", and I noticed she is now putting the heavy cream in HER coffee too!! :)
Years ago I went on the Atkins diet with my youngest daughter, and I lost 15 pounds in 6 weeks. She was totally upset about it, convinced it does damage to your kidneys and so on. So it is a slow process convincing her this diet is healthier.
She loved the curried cauliflower soup and MCS bread though!! :)

When a guest doctor was on Dr. Oz the other day, Dr. Oz admitted that he (he is a heart surgeon btw), and many other doctors receive no nutritional training in medical school. I think it should be mandatory. Especially for family physicians and general practitioners. Their patients would be a lot healthier if the doctors had a clue about diet.

Gretchen
 
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#15 ·
I have never had any success with dieticians. Every one I have met believes that there is exactly 1 correct way to structure a diet. Any attempt to discuss personalizing the diet based on an individual's needs are immediately shut down. Which makes me wonder why they exist if all they do is parrot what I could have read on a 1 page pamphlet...

Also my endo was sublimely indifferent to my very high blood sugars. It made me feel like 300-400 wasn't bad per se, just that eventually I should get it a bit lower. If someone believes that all the information they need to know about their disease will come from their doc, this attitude easily encourages people to not take diabetes seriously.
 
#16 ·
What high blood sugar level is really dangerous?



After my encounter with the guy in the gym madly exercising with a blood sugar level of 29 (that is over 500 isn't it?) while feeling a bit fuzzy and appearing a bit grumpy I got to thinking.

I was handed the same sheets of paper with instructions when I was first diagnosed so I now know how woefully inadequate they were. I did a lot of reading but it was not until I came on here after 5 years of what I thought was good management by their guidelines that I found out that their level of 8 -10 as being satisfactory was not so. Ok so I was ignorant too but feel this guy took it to a new level, probably because he's not much of a reader and maybe English is not his first language. He has been diag. for 11 years and thought he was fine (if I, on first meeting, could pick this up, how his Doctor has not is a mystery)

By sheer dumb luck I was only up to 17.9 once so really have no idea what 29 or 500 plus would feel like so having read that some people on here have first been diagnosed over 500 and only found out when ending up in hospital I am wanting to know. How high is so high that the situation is an emergency? How high do you have to be for passing out to be a possibly?

I guess I am second guessing myself for interfering and pretty much telling a perfect stranger to stop exercising and contact his Doc or diabetic educator or whoever. You can be honest here guys, please, did I over react?
 
#17 ·
I don't believe you over reacted. You cared enough to advise him what he should do. Maybe, it was a wake up call for him....it certainly didn't hurt him to hear it. It is still his choice to take care of himself or stay n denial.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Hillary said:
After my encounter with the guy in the gym madly exercising with a blood sugar level of 29 (that is over 500 isn't it?) while feeling a bit fuzzy and appearing a bit grumpy I got to thinking.

I was handed the same sheets of paper with instructions when I was first diagnosed so I now know how woefully inadequate they were. I did a lot of reading but it was not until I came on here after 5 years of what I thought was good management by their guidelines that I found out that their level of 8 -10 as being satisfactory was not so. Ok so I was ignorant too but feel this guy took it to a new level, probably because he's not much of a reader and maybe English is not his first language. He has been diag. for 11 years and thought he was fine (if I, on first meeting, could pick this up, how his Doctor has not is a mystery)

By sheer dumb luck I was only up to 17.9 once so really have no idea what 29 or 500 plus would feel like so having read that some people on here have first been diagnosed over 500 and only found out when ending up in hospital I am wanting to know. How high is so high that the situation is an emergency? How high do you have to be for passing out to be a possibly?

I guess I am second guessing myself for interfering and pretty much telling a perfect stranger to stop exercising and contact his Doc or diabetic educator or whoever. You can be honest here guys, please, did I over react?
You didn't overreact. Yes he was over 500. You said you wonder how his Dr may be missing this. 7 yrs ago I had to pass rigorous physical test. The test involved cardio, lifting, and dragging a 175lb firemans dummy 25 feet. I had to be able to pull a multi handicapped student from a room in an emergency. The other part of that test was a "physical" from a "doctor". I passed the the rigorous part of the test, but barely. 3 months prior to the test I had had open abdominal surgery.

Little history. 1 yr prior to the test I had been labeled Type 2. PCP wanted me to watch my diet. No meds. I didn't know the difference between T1 and T2. Except maybe that T1 was for kids. Only had me testing randomly.

Now the physical from the Occupational Doctor. She did a BG because of the T2 label. It was 652! She passed me and sent me on my merry way. Didn't advise me on anything. I thought since she wasn't concerned why should I be.

Hindsight is 20/20 for me now. If she had advised me maybe I wouldn't of become as sick as I did. I didn't go back to a Dr for over 6 yrs. I was T2. What was the big deal in my mind.

I wish she would of overreacted with me. I should of been admitted to the hospital at that moment. Maybe I would of gotten my T1 diagnosis sooner. The test was done in a hospital!

--overreact--
 
#21 ·
Me too. All I could say is "WOW" and not a good WOW either.

Gretchen
 
#22 ·
I just met with a diabetic dietician this week and was told I had to have a minimum of 130 grams and a max of 160 per day. For the previous two weeks since diagnosis I had been under 80. It seems like a lot of folks here support the notion of lower carb recommendations. I'm hesitant to have the amount of carbs the dietitian recommended and have been spinning from all the varying recommendations I've seen online.
 
#23 · (Edited)
For a simple - clear explanation of blood glucose management, have a look at this site, Blood Sugar 101 and in particular, this section: How to Lower Your Blood Sugar.

One thing that dieticans seem to avoid asking themselves is the one simple question - "what nutritional benefits can we get from carbohydrates, in particular cereals that we can't get from the other food groups?"

If they are being honest, their answer should be "NONE". My experience is that they will duck the question!
 
#24 ·
Shanny said:
Marsha? I'm struck dumb from your story. Hangin's too good for a doc who ignores a blood sugar of 652! Good lord! :mad:
Looking back I'm dumbstruck too! That Dr is still there and if I ever have to have an Occupational Physical again I will give her a piece of my mind. I should of been sent straight down the hall to the ER.

Of course now I'm much more educated on my situation thanks to you folks :) :) :)
 
G
#25 ·
GretchenRS said:
The nurse from my Doctor's office called yesterday, and said my doctor wants me to see a dietitian. I said no thanks. And told her why, I am eating low carb high fat and my BG is going down, and from what I hear from others most dietitians are telling diabetics to eat too many carbs. She said 'That's fine, I'll tell the doctor." :) Hope that is the end of it.

Gretchen
I was asked to see a dietition when my insulin was changed, she told me I could eat anything with a weight watchers label on it also bread toast or potatoes as part of daily diet.It was that that made me look at forum and learned she was talking rubbish. I am 5 foot 8 iches tall so do not consider 10 stone to heavy .Since trying some of foods on forum I have lost 6 lb.
I will see her again in November and will take my pad with me an then tell her what I think.
 
G
#32 ·
pjsunnyday said:
The dietician will fight you every step of the way. They know what they were taught, and are not interested in facts. It may actually be a losing battle to try to change your dietician's approach. Might be easier on you to just nod and smile, and keep on doing what works for you. But if you're up for the battle, I say go for it! :D
I was a nursing sister in the 70-90,so will just remind her times and methods have changed and we had refresher courses to attend to remain in touch with new teachings, this should also have happened to her as I know her age.
 
#34 · (Edited)
Jen,

I agree with your sentiments but....

The distinct impression I have received in my two years is that the official line is still "the carb is king - thou shalt not cut back on it". My OH decided to formalise her extensive knowledge of diet by a certified course. All went well for the first several sessions, then suddenly she opened the next project to be welcomed by an opening along the lines of "Now that we have proven that the best diet for all cases is one where the major source of calories come from carbohydrates....."

Judy blinked and asked "When did we prove this? Was I asleep at the time?"

So, I fear that your session with your dietican could turn very confrontational and you may find yourself indulging in the flagellation of a post mortum equine!

Sorry, John:(
 
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