Another Low Carb High Fat Diet discussion

Go Back   The Diabetes Forum Support Community For Diabetics Online > Diabetes Forum Community > Diabetes Treatment

Diabetes Treatment As there is currently no cure for the chronic, Diabetes mellitus – the emphasis must be on treatment and management to avoid complications. Please use this section to discuss how you carefully control and manage your Diabetes. Please let us know what is and isn’t working for you. Feel free to discuss all areas of treatment and management of Diabetes including diet, exercise, weight loss, insulin usage, oral drugs and more.


Like Tree5Likes
  • 2 Post By ColaJim
  • 3 Post By Daytona

Another Low Carb High Fat Diet discussion


Closed Thread
 
Shared Thread Thread Tools
Old 11-22-2011, 09:12   #1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Delhi, India
Posts: 1,423

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 2011

640 likes received
120 likes given
Default Another Low Carb High Fat Diet discussion

Guys, I just came across this documents which claims the increased levels on Cholesterol and higher incidence of Kidney stones as a result of Ketogenic diets. Have we had these discussions in the past ?

http://www.practicalgastro.com/pdf/J...nerArticle.pdf

The document links to a study done on 141 children who were put on a Ketogenic diet for management of their epilepsy

Effect of a high-fat ketogenic diet on plasma levels of... [JAMA. 2003] - PubMed - NCBI

What is your opinion on this research ? I know many of our numbers cholesterol numbers are falling but this research looks authentic and scientific ?

Quote:

CONTEXT: Little prospective long-term information is available on the effect of a ketogenic diet on plasma lipoproteins in children with difficult-to-control seizures.

OBJECTIVE: To determine the effect in children with intractable seizures of a high-fat ketogenic diet on plasma levels of the major apolipoprotein B (apoB)-containing lipoproteins, low-density lipoprotein (LDL) and very LDL (VLDL); and the major apolipoprotein A-I (apoA-I)-containing lipoprotein, high-density lipoprotein (HDL).

DESIGN, SETTING, AND PATIENTS: A 6-month prospective cohort study of 141 children (mean [SD] age, 5.2 [3.8] years for 70 boys and 6.1 [4.4] years for 71 girls) with difficult-to-treat seizures who were hospitalized for initiation of a high-fat ketogenic diet and followed up as outpatients. This cohort constituted a subgroup of the 371 patients accepted into the ketogenic diet program between 1994 and 2001. A subset of the cohort was also studied after 12 (n = 59) and 24 (n = 27) months.

INTERVENTION: A ketogenic diet consisting of a high ratio of fat to carbohydrate and protein combined (4:1 [n = 102], 3.5:1 [n = 7], or 3:1 [n = 32]). After diet initiation, the calories and ratio were adjusted to maintain ideal body weight for height and maximal urinary ketosis for seizure control.

MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Differences at baseline and 6-month follow-up for levels of total, VLDL, LDL, HDL, and non-HDL cholesterol; triglycerides; total apoB; and apoA-I.

RESULTS: At 6 months, the high-fat ketogenic diet significantly increased the mean plasma levels of total (58 mg/dL [1.50 mmol/L]), LDL (50 mg/dL [1.30 mmol/L]), VLDL (8 mg/dL [0.21 mmol/L]), and non-HDL cholesterol (63 mg/dL [1.63 mmol/L]) (P<.001 vs baseline for each); triglycerides (58 mg/dL [0.66 mmol/L]) (P<.001); and total apoB (49 mg/dL) (P<.001). Mean HDL cholesterol decreased significantly (P<.001), although apoA-I increased (4 mg/dL) (P =.23). Significant but less marked changes persisted in children observed after 12 and 24 months.

CONCLUSIONS: A high-fat ketogenic diet produced significant increases in the atherogenic apoB-containing lipoproteins and a decrease in the antiatherogenic HDL cholesterol. Further studies are necessary to determine if such a diet adversely affects endothelial vascular function and promotes inflammation and formation of atherosclerotic lesions.


__________________

HbA1c 12.7 (Dx), 5.2 (Dec 2012)
Weight 242 (Dx), 164 (Current)
Monitoring BP and LDL Cholesterol
No Meds since Feb, 2012 (after meds for 6 months)

Lifesytle: LC, exercise daily
Supplements: Ground Flaxseed, Fish Oil, Garlic, Almonds

--------------------------------------------------------
"Be the change you want to see in the world" - Mahatma Gandhi
tony0611 is offline  
Old 11-22-2011, 09:23   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Delhi, India
Posts: 1,423

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 2011

640 likes received
120 likes given
Default

Actually I also feel that any diet (even if it is LCHF) cannot be a 100% benign. There has to be a flip side even if it is a small flip side.

If only medical community could accept this approach (LCHF) as a genuine option for Diabetics and guide us appropriately and carefully. Thats what doctors are supposed to be doing.

__________________

HbA1c 12.7 (Dx), 5.2 (Dec 2012)
Weight 242 (Dx), 164 (Current)
Monitoring BP and LDL Cholesterol
No Meds since Feb, 2012 (after meds for 6 months)

Lifesytle: LC, exercise daily
Supplements: Ground Flaxseed, Fish Oil, Garlic, Almonds

--------------------------------------------------------
"Be the change you want to see in the world" - Mahatma Gandhi
tony0611 is offline  
Old 11-22-2011, 10:35   #3
Senior Member
 
ColaJim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Midland Michigan USA
Posts: 912

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 1998

477 likes received
919 likes given
Default Wrong !!

Communist can not espouse free enterprise and still be accepted as communist.

Catholics can not espouse Protestantism and still be accepted as Catholics.

And AMA doctors can not espouse ideas like "there is a nutrition basis for disease" and still be accepted as AMA (drugs are the answer) practitioners and doing so may cost them their license in the USA.

As with any group, if you oppose their dogma you will be excommunicated, just try going to to a chess club's meeting and start advocating that they should be playing checkers instead and see what happens!

ColaJim


Quote:
Originally Posted by tony0611 View Post

If only medical community could accept this approach (LCHF) as a genuine option for Diabetics and guide us appropriately and carefully. Thats what doctors are supposed to be doing.

Shanny and optimist like this.
__________________
ColaJim, Age 72
Type 2 (very advanced Metabolic Syndrome ) for about 15 years but "Insulin/oxygen Resistant" for about 40 years
A1C-VAR 7.7 09/02/2010


now taking:

Novolog as required
.
'Guessing is a scientific method" ~ Richard Feynman

I am not your librarian! Do your own research!. ~ ColaJim

Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm. ~ Winston Churchill
ColaJim is offline  
Old 11-22-2011, 12:10   #4
Senior Member
 
Daytona's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 1,855

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 2010

2065 likes received
2240 likes given
Default

I can't tell from the abstracts but in every analysis of the children's epileptic ketogenic diet it's been driven home that it is nowhere near the same diet as how most adults implement it.

1. It is severely calorie restricted.
2. In the pre-formulated meals/drinks the ingredients are surprising: High in soybean oil, usually contains some HFCS, etc. Not ingredients that we normally advocate!

I can't find the composition analysis at the moment (I'll look after work) but I thought that the protein content was funky too.

Depending on how the studies were performed and the diet used, I would be wary of applying the results of pediatric ketogenic epileptic diets (which may or may not include medications too) to a diabetic or weight loss ketogenic diet.

fgummett, MCS and moon like this.
__________________
Diagnosed 12/2010 @ 10.7
Latest A1C 2/2014 @ 5.3
31 years old
www.sweetgeek.net
Daytona is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Low carb, high fat... Really? adiecain Diabetes Forum Lounge 15 04-16-2013 23:32
Low carb/high protein Diet News Patdart Diabetes News 2 06-14-2011 21:08
Triglyceride Level Too High For Full Fat Diet breezeonby Diabetes Diet and Nutrition 2 02-20-2011 05:45
trying this high protein shake diet and had questions stephenlowe Diabetes Diet and Nutrition 5 05-21-2010 02:49
High Protein Diet vs weight loss Annieliese Diabetes Diet and Nutrition 5 03-29-2010 14:05

LEGAL NOTICE
By using this Website, you agree to abide by our Terms and Conditions (the "Terms"). This notice does not replace our Terms, which you must read in full as they contain important information. You must not post any defamatory, unlawful or undesirable content, or any content copied from a third party, on the Website. You must not copy material from the Website except in accordance with the Terms. This Website gives users an opportunity to share information only and is not intended to contain any advice which you should rely upon. It does not replace the need to take professional or other advice. We have no liability to you or any other person in respect of any content on this Website.


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 16:57.




Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO