What is an appropriate BS level? Seems there is some dispute. - Page 2

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What is an appropriate BS level? Seems there is some dispute. - Page 2


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Old 12-31-2013, 11:53   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Invicta View Post
Thank you Mstar for posting this, lots of information and seems to make a very good case for controlling blood sugar even during that 2 hour period post meals, maybe especially then. Not feeling quite so happy about my chocolate bar now
The thanks go to John.in.France, one of the fabulous moderators on this site. He posted it in a reply to a thread i posted questioning reducing or discontinuing basal insulin.

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Old 12-31-2013, 12:40   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mstar View Post
posted in a reply to a thread i posted questioning reducing or discontinuing basal insulin.
This shows the great merit in prowling through other threads, instead of starting your own & just sitting on it waiting for people to respond there.

I know we repeat ourselves ad nauseum, but it's worth it if people find answers because someone else asked a question they themselves hadn't thought of yet. Everything under the diabetic sun has been discussed here at some time or another, so prowl around, use the search button . . . if a particular thread seems promising, there's a button at center-right on the red navigation bar where you can also search that specific thread (I've about worn out that button on the recipes thread! ).

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Old 12-31-2013, 15:54   #13
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Hi Invicta: If you go to Blood Sugar 101 there is a graphic/link in the middle of the home page called "Why lowering your a1c below 6% is not dangerous"
The bloodsugar101 reference above leads to a presentation by Professor Christiansen that may be hard to find (as the URLs are masked). Here is a direct link to that talk: Diabetes Management: From Today´s Standards to Tomorrow´s - Christiansen, Prof. J. S. What is Normal Glucose? – Continuous Glucose Monitoring Data from Healthy Subjects - diabetes-symposium.org
He used continuous glucose monitors to answer your question about what is an appropriate BS level. As you might expect it depends on a lot of factors. To oversimplify, the lower the better in terms of chronic health outcomes. This study showed 55-160 daytime BG levels in normal subjects. Of course read BS101 or better yet download Jenny Ruhl's book it is only $3.99 for the Kindle.

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Old 01-01-2014, 04:06   #14
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Whenever you see a study on lowering BG you have to find out how they tried to do it. Not very often do they try to do it using low carb eating. Usually they use drugs or low-fat dieting, and any health issues have to be considered in that light.

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Old 01-01-2014, 15:37   #15
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I have been reading many books recommended on this forum. I'm currently reading "The Truth About Low Carb Diets" - Jenny Ruhl. I am 5 chapters in and I was surprised to find that this is not an evangelical treatise on LCHF but a very sober, straight forward analysis of the pros and cons of this WOE. I was expecting this book to explain why this is the be-all, end-all way to eat but now I have more concerns.

I have seen my own blood sugar become controlled to a rhythm of lows in the 80's to highs in the 130's with a reduced carb diet. When I reduced the carbs further I see my sugar stable through a 24 hour period at 100 to 105, before meals, after meals, fasting. I am very happy about this but would like to see that narrow range in the 80's or low 90's.

The one concept I am getting is that Diabetes is a very dangerous disease and the treatment is not to be taken lightly. I am particularly concerned with the rebound effect of an extreme LCHF diet that Ruhl discusses. She also seems to dispute the debunking of calories in - calories out discussed so throughly in "Why We Get Fat" by Gary Taubs. Jenny's point seems to be that the composition of the nutrients we consume are very important but more calories in than out will make us fat.
I have not finished the book but I am anxious to hear some of the opinions of others on this group which seems to advocate strict LCHF.

Thank you and Happy new year

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Dx T2 8/15/2013 BG-409 a1c-13.1 287lbs. HDL 42 Trig 387
12/22/2013 a1c 6.5 HDL 78 Trig 70 253lbs.
1/10/2014 a1c 5.7
Levemir 12U
Metformin 2500 MG
Linsinopril 2.5 MG
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Old 01-01-2014, 15:44   #16
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I want to comment on your last point. About ten days ago, I dropped my carb level to less than 20 per day. One day I was at 25 (the 1st day). I know for a fact that my calorie consumption has been higher the past ten days, due to the types of food I eat more of, when eating very low carb. My calorie level has increased by probably about 400-450 calories per day, if not more. In the past ten days, I have also lost seven pounds.

I am not disagreeing with Jenny, as I think her work is very credible. I do agree with her, but would just add that some people are different. There are forum members that do have to watch calories, and I also may come back to a point where I have to watch them, also. I think that our bodies go through so much between diabetes, changing eating habits, etc. that everything has to stabilize at some point, and that point is where you'll figure out how many calories you should be eating to avoid any undesirable weight gain.

Personally, I am not at all concerned right now with weight. My blood sugar is in control and to keep it there, I am going to eat how I need to (very low carb) regardless of related weight issues. Going slightly off-topic, I am sure that when I see my endo. in February for my 6-month appt. he is going to again point out that I need to lose weight. This time, I am going to suggest to him that instead, we should dive right in to the real business, like A1C, blood sugar, and cholesterol.

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Old 01-01-2014, 16:13   #17
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I take the view that the idea of "a calorie is a calorie....." is too superficial.

A very crude analogy. High octane petrol has a higher calorific value than diesel. So, applying the maxim of "a calorie is a calorie....." , all cars should perform better using high octane petrol.

Clearly this isn't going to work when your fuel engine is set up for diesel. The human body is the same. A gram of carbohydrate or protein delivers 4 calories. A gram of fat delivers 9.

But how efficiently does my body burn this particular item be it a potato or an apple or a slice of beef......?

Personally, I think the total mass of the substance being swallowed has more bearing on the issue than the simple calorific value.

Three years ago I lost thirty pounds eating a higher calorific diet than I had been eating before diagnosis.

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Old 01-01-2014, 21:06   #18
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John, Have you been your current weight since your Dx?

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Old 01-01-2014, 21:15   #19
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John, Have you been your current weight since your Dx?
When I was weighed in hospital in August 2010 I turned in 83 kg (183 pounds). Using the BMI rules I was around 15 pounds into the overweight category.

By the time of my second HbA1c in February 2011, I was down to 69 kg (151 pounds). That put me smack in the middle of the normal weight category.

Judy had me following a LCHF diet of around 2,200 calories that has remained unchanged since that August. (In calorie terms that is She does ring the changes with what she feeds me)

Since then my weight has wandered between 69 and 70 kg.

 
Old 01-02-2014, 06:02   #20
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Originally Posted by John.in.France View Post
I take the view that the idea of "a calorie is a calorie....." is too superficial.

A very crude analogy. High octane petrol has a higher calorific value than diesel. So, applying the maxim of "a calorie is a calorie....." , all cars should perform better using high octane petrol.

Clearly this isn't going to work when your fuel engine is set up for diesel. The human body is the same. A gram of carbohydrate or protein delivers 4 calories. A gram of fat delivers 9.

But how efficiently does my body burn this particular item be it a potato or an apple or a slice of beef......?

Personally, I think the total mass of the substance being swallowed has more bearing on the issue than the simple calorific value.

Three years ago I lost thirty pounds eating a higher calorific diet than I had been eating before diagnosis.
On top of that, this concept that every calorie is either "burned" or "stored" is just brain-dead stupid. It sort of holds up in a monolithic population eating SAD. In other words, if just about all your energy comes from glucose, calories-in/calories-out comes close.

BUT in other contexts it utterly collapses. There are other possibilities besides "burn" or "store". "Store" itself is mainly governed by insulin so WOEs which keep insulin higher more of the time - e.g., high-carb with frequent meals and snacks - would obviously affect this.

More, there are other avenues through which calories can exit than just those two. Ketones (which also came from "calories") can be excreted in urine or even exhaled with breath. The body can decide to make more or less heat internally. Producing more heat disposes of additional "calories". Etc.

Different ways of eating can produce very different results and depart way away from the calories-in/calories-out nonsense.

Check this out.

Yeah, I know that's just a n=1 trial but I've seen at least one other almost exactly like it AND this is precisely what the science predicts.

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