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Just Venting, I apologize in advance.

9K views 30 replies 16 participants last post by  justinervin85 
#1 ·
I've delayed writing this because when I'm upset, I go into 'silent mode'. It's a hard habit to break.

Ok, so I'm going to vent, because that's the only thing I feel to start with right now.

I'm so upset!!!

Let me start in the middle...

A few weeks ago, I had an emergency apicoectomy. One minute I was at the dentist's office, the next morning in the endodontist's chair. Apparently, I had an infection that was eating away at my jaw. It wasn't too bad, everything is fine. I'm glad it was taken care of so quickly. But, here's the kicker,... They gave me some strong pain medication, one of which was a narcotic.

Now, I was diagnosed with diabetes, type 2, a year and almost 5 months ago. They gave me metformin, a statin (which I ditched after a month because OUCH!), some calcium and vitamin D, and a small aspirin, and a whole bunch of bad diet advice and a ton of grief when I went on LCHF. Most of you know this story. What I also received was a nice gift of PAIN and debilitating fatigue! Muscular pain that ate away at my large muscles, arms and legs became toothpicks and I was said to have lactic acidosis from the metformin. Whatever.

So, we dropped the metformin last May, blood sugars were great, A1Cs were great. My A1C at diagnosis was 10.7, fasting 316 or 317, and my subsequent ones were 5.0, 4.7, and my latest one a couple of weeks ago was another 4.7. Yay me. uh huh..

Cholesterol, great, all markers great, low WBC and RBC. BP 95/56.

A few months after dropping the metformin, my muscle pain was replaced with strong muscle burning and my muscles began to grow back. I understood this to be a long process. Okay...

So, back to the endodontist and the pain meds... a narcotic called hydroxycodone, I believe. For a few days I experienced NO pain or burning. None. I had energy, I was out and about, I was happy, I had hope, the fatigue was gone. Gone! I had been in agony for well over a year! Well, I will shamefully, or not, tell you that I wanted the relief to continue. I wanted my life back, come what may. The following week I had my blood work done which showed inflammation, a higher than normal C-reactive protein (18.8) and ESR (20). But, not enough to be conclusive. Now, I've been talking to my doctor about this pain and burning for almost a year and a half! I wanted it to end , now that I knew it actually could, but agreed that narcotics were probably not the way to go. So, I had to fight tooth and nail for him to please put me at least a bit out of my misery. And, it was a battle, because it was obvious I was seeking Drugs! And, I'm the person who is reluctant to take an aspirin. I also fought hard with diet to lose all of my weight and get off of all diabetes medication. This was not me, asking for meds to relieve this burning which causes so much fatigue and muscle knots, I have been unable to regain my active and happy life. In fact, I became quite the hermit, even a tad agoraphobic.

So, last August, it was decided that I move with my daughter to her apartment near her medical school because I can't climb stairs, it's so painful, and our house is very big. Happy, better, but terribly sad. I've since regained some energy as my muscles rebuild and have made wonderful friends. I go out briefly now a few times a week. A far cry better than the year I spent in BED.

Pathetically, the doctor relented and gave me 15 mg a day of mobic for the pain. It doesn't work. Then now naproxen.. a nice back reliever but nothing for this burning and fatigue. He did offer me an antidepressant which I declined. I can't tell you how that offended me and what I wanted to do with his kind offer. The option to switch doctors is truly not an option since we are retired military and he's the only one who supported LCHF (which he is beginning to blame for the burning).

It's been a few weeks now since the hydroxycodone and I am beginning to forget what those few days were like. This is a mixed blessing. I see him again end of February when I have to make a 5-hour useless drive, for what? I fear there is no help and I shall have to just learn to live with this, somehow. I know that people live with worse, and maybe I'm just a big baby, but I'm Tired!

Ok, vent over. I'm sorry. I just .. needed to vent. You have all been more of a help to me than any of them.
 
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#2 ·
:grouphug:(((((((Bree))))))):grouphug:

Oh, and for your doctor?

:mad2::mad2::mad2:

Please pardon if this is unwanted or impossible advice, but would it be at all possible to change docs?
 
#4 ·
Aaaaahhhhh ... I was afraid of that. We sail in similar boats, you and I!
 
#5 ·
Oh Bree, I hope that you find relief soon! I've had many debilitating pain problems over the years, and have been lucky to avoid getting hooked on pain meds. I know just how you feel about that. In my opinion, the side effects of most drugs are worse than the problem you are taking them for. Ugh.

Anyway, rant all you want. It's free, and there are plenty of us here to listen and send back healing vibes. BIG HEALING HUGS!
 
#6 · (Edited)
I know of hydrocodone and oxycodone, but never heard of hydroxycodone. EDIT: I think it's the same as hydrocodone.

The hydrocodone w/acetaminophen is Vicodin, the oxycodone w/acetaminophen is Percocet, without the acetaminophen it is Oxy-Contin, I believe.

They are all drugs that are frequently abused and hence it is becoming more and more policy to have more stringent requirements to obtain them.
 
#7 ·
I know of hydrocodone and oxycodone, but never heard of hydroxycodone. EDIT: I think it's the same as hydrocodone. The hydrocodone w/acetaminophen is Vicodin, the oxycodone w/acetaminophen is Percocet, without the acetaminophen it is Oxy-Contin, I believe. They are all drugs that are frequently abused and hence it is becoming more and more policy to have more stringent requirements to obtain them.
I think mine was the hydroxy with acetominabphin. Yes, I know it's a controlled narcotic. I was asking for a suitable NSAID. I guess it's something that is just going to take time to heal, if it heals.
 
#8 ·
Bree, so sorry that things are so bad for you - (((Big Hug)))

Now, just to let you know, I take an anti-depressant and like you I was aghast when my doctor prescribed it as I was in pain not depressed. I then listened carefully to what he was saying and it turns out the old tricyclic anti- depressants are used for chronic pain relief - usually in combination with some other med - in my case Lyrica (for PHN following shingles).

It appears that the tricyclics stop pain messages to the brain and this is why they are prescribed for pain conditions, not because the patient is depressed.

I have been taking Amiltriptyline for some years with no side effects. I did once try to stop taking it (doc didn't know) and suffered strong pain breakthrough.

So, perhaps this is the reason your doc suggested it.

You can read more about Amiltriptyline on this website. Go to the site map and then click on Amiltriptyline. It gives a good overview of chronic pain.

Home - Pain Concern

Hope this helps
 
#9 ·
Hi Bree, perhaps you should try the anti-depressant since it might help. Freyagirl is right, those can help for chronic pain - especially if it's neuropathic. You'd probably get a lower dose than you would if you were depressed thus lessening the risk of side effects.
Whatever you decide, I hope you'll find some relief.
 
#10 ·
I don't know why it is that I am so reluctant to go on antidepressants for pain relief. It's not that it's intense pain as it was last year. My muscles have come back in slowly. I would describe it as burning in all large muscle areas. But, I have a high tolerance for pain and I was in agony last year. So, things have improved. The problem comes in when the burning just lasts forever without relief. It's exhausting.

But, I'm encouraged that it's not the horrible pain I had to endure a year before. I do see some improvement, which, perhaps mistakenly, leads me to believe that my body knows what it's doing, that my body can and will, in time, heal itself.

A few weeks ago, I read an incredible book by Jeff Bowles on mega doses of Vitamin D3/K2 treatment, looked up quite a few studies currently being conducted in the US and abroad. It's just incredible how the body repairs itself, the mechanisms of that repair,.. I have begun this high dose treatment and I definitely have improved energy. Then the surgery and the hyroxycodone fiasco. It was like opening Pandora's Box.

Today, I have abandoned the tylenol, mobic, and naproxen, so I do suffer, but I have to remind myself that it is no different than 'pre-hydroxycodone days'. I can endure this. The Vitamin D3/K2 therapy has thusfar cleared most of this odd rash on my wrist, has certainly made me happier, and had lessened the burning by about 10%. I don't know exactly what it will do in my system over time, but it does take time (many months).

I'm saddened that I have to take matters into my own hands, but I guess it can be empowering, as well. I'm sure there is a reason for my life this past year and a half, and I certainly hope that something good can come of it, if only to serve as an encouragement to one person,.. once this season of my life has come to a close. I guess as long as I can believe that it will come to a close, I can keep going. If it is the case that this is my life with no remedy, then I would have to rethink the matter.
 
#11 ·
I am SO SORRY this happening, Bree!!!

I do not know if anyone mentioned my personal muscle pain problem, I suffered for about a decade, never mentioned b/c I did not want to be a "Crazy Fibromyalgia Lady," I work in a medical sch and overhear a lot of BS ... so anyhow, I discovered once my TSH was under control, that pain had DISAPPEARED.

Crap. ONE PILL everyday would prevented all those years of pain.
 
#12 ·
"Crazy Fibromyalgia Lady" is about where I'm headed if I keep complaining. So, as far as the medical community goes, I am choosing to stop!

TSH? I am definitely looking that up. And, no, no one has even mentioned anything remotely like what I am experiencing, which leaves me baffled and a bit dejected. I certainly don't need anything more than diabetes.
 
#14 ·
Amitriptyline has been around for a long time, and OWC takes it as a sleep aid. He also takes some heavy-duty antidepressants, and the funny thing is, he'll forget the Paxil or the Zyprexa and not know it until he notices the medtracker slot is hasn't been emptied. Forget the amitriptyline and he's onto it immediately. Can't sleep, gets emotional, just messed up all the way around.
 
#15 ·
I'm sorry you have had to go through begging the doctor for any relief while trying to not look like an addict. I have been there and it's awful...

I am sure it's not the same thing but last year I was experiencing persistent muscle burning in my quadracepts, which was crippling when walking up stairs. My doctor tested my vitamin D which was pretty much non-existant and after a few weeks of a mega-dose along with K2, and a long term dose of D3/K2 every day, the pain is gone.
 
#17 ·
Bree, do you have the option of seeing someone for pain management? This has become rather popular over the last decade or so. Might be worth looking into.

So sorry you are going through all this. My D3 was very very low at one time and I was treated with the mega doses of D3 for 8 weeks (50,000 iu once a week for 8 weeks). That raised it up and I continue to take 5,000-6000 iu daily of D3. My level stays right in the middle now. I will have to look into the K2 though. Never heard of that.

My MIL has been on hydrocodone for like 25 years. They cannot stop her on them now because it would kill her! She is 92 years old, and has horrible osteoporosis (very hunched up) and terrible feet (her bones literally are collapsing in her feet). So, I don't know how she has been able to continue on this med for so long, but she does. It does make her quite loopy though.

I hope you find a solution. Pain really stinks when it is constant. I have difficulty with a left shoulder rotor cuff problem that affects my neck and my back. All it takes is one wrong turn and look out! The pain is escrutiating!
 
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#18 · (Edited)
I too have unremitting pain when I stand or walk. Needless to say sitting most of the time has taken its toll on my legs. I guess luckily for me, pain pills of any kind don't help. They just make me loopy and don't seem to be an answer for me. I've seen two pain management doctors to no avail. One gave me a list of pain meds for me to take to my gp and see what he'd choose that wouldn't conflict with other meds I am taking. After reading the list, I didn't go back. I wish I could try marijuana as so many say it works!

Sigh,
 
#20 ·
LOL, you gotta be careful with that treatment. It may not stop the pain, but it will make you not care. Bad side effect is the munchies and that usually results in a carbfest.
 
#19 ·
I am so sorry. (((hugs)))

I obsessively research on the internet for any symptoms I may have. It's kind of a painful process itself, as you have to try and sort through the crazies and the opinions to get to fact.

In the meantime, don't be afraid of antidepressants. I wish I had started them WAY before I actually did.
 
#22 ·
You CAN see another doctor...yeah it'd be on your dime.

You know...you and I are the same. I have problems taking pain killers or pain medication for my pain that I experience (which is quite extreme).

That being said...

If someone offered me a percocet right now to relieve the pain I am in currently I would take it without hesitation.

Does that make me an addict? NO. I'm not addicted to the pills...I'm addicted to being free from pain. Give me an alternative that works better and I'll be for it but nothing works for the leg pain I experience.

Also, it is a controlled substance but if you lost that much muscle mass and you are struggling and LA was confirmed then I don't see this doctor's damn problem. You obviously went through a harrowing ordeal and your body is reeling because of it. It is obvious to anyone with a brain that you are in pain and he prescribes you aleve?

That doctor needs to have his medical license shoved up his narrow tightly wound patooty. (Just sayin...)

If I was your doctor I'd prescribe you valium to help cope with the tension and anxiety (not depression) of the pain you experience and try you on trammadol first. It is a non narcotic pain killer.

If that didn't work I'd try you on the Elixir form of Hydrocodone.

If that didn't work I'd try you out on Percocet

If that didn't work I'd just give you Fentanyl Patches and call it good because if that doesn't work...hell I don't know what will...

Of course there is Oxycodone, Darvocet, Morphine, and Dilotid. I wouldn't even get close to any of those however. Dilotid is about as powerful as you can get I believe without killing yourself...but not worth it.

You definitely need to talk to your doctor about getting into Physical Therapy as well. Up your protein intake and buy something called Shakeology. It is high in protein and phytonutrients and I highly recommend it to anyone who is trying to put on muscle. Have it with your meals every day and do as much activity with your legs as possible (ever hear of flutter kicks and bicycle kicks? research them and do it in bed if you can't walk that well it is what I'm doing for my legs right now...well not at this MOMENT but you know...ah you get it...)

Of course it is also high in carbs so you might want to use it as a meal replacement or the sole proprietor of carbohydrates in your meals.

PT would definitely help you out Bree. You've gone through so much and I do hope you start to feel better and I hope that doctor his head out of his ass and starts doing what's right by you to help alleviate your suffering.

But when you go and see the doctor tell him that you would like to try trammadol first. It is a non narcotic solution. If it doesn't work for you, it could be the gateway to higher forms of pain killers. I just pray that trammadol works.
 
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#28 · (Edited)
I did ask for tramadol, but he refused. So, I'm forced to try something that could be considered dangerous. Yes, I'm that desperate.

I've done a lot of research on mega dose vitamin D3/K2 therapy. I'm a few weeks in at the moment and am seeing some interesting results. One, my hair stopped falling out, my wrist rashes have all but disappeared, the burning on my muscles have lessened by 40%, intestinal problems have completely cleared up, and I'm feeling that happy energy that had left me for so long, since way before Dx. I'm nowhere near where I want to be but I'm better than where I was.

IFF this does not work completely, I will consider the antidepressant for pain management. Even saying that makes me cringe. But, I will do it. Who knows, maybe it will also help with some anxiety, although this has greatly lessened in just this past week alone.

Why do I find this treatment risky? Because the US, where I live, is only beginning to perform studies and research in the area, especially in conjunction with cancer, MS, etc. In places like Brazil, they have all but reversed such things as MS. It's quite remarkable. I continually read studies to this affect.

I'm sad to have to take these matters into my own hands, but enough is enough. The thought of living with debilitating fatigue and burning is just too much for me. The thought of breaking every medical rule, bringing my Vitamin D count well above 'recommended allowance', as many have done, without medical supervision is all but frightening. I know what is at stake. This is my choice.



Thank you. Everyone, Thank you. Truly.
 
#24 ·
:hug::hug::hug:

So sorry you are going through this.
No advice here.
Just hope it all gets figured out.
 
#26 ·
Eh...potato po-tah-toe...it numbs you to the world around you that's all that counts right? :D
 
#27 ·
Well, Bree, you got quite a bit of advice. I didn't understand most of it but I will say that upping the Vitamin B will help you heal. As you heal, you will start to feel more like moving around and restoring your muscles. You do seem understandably "upset." Has meditation ever helped? I know from my experience and my mother's that the more emotionally stressed I am, the more my (and my mom's) physical pain increased. So, in summary, my advice is to take it slow, step by step. If Elavil helps, go for it. BTW tramadol gave my mom nightmares so be careful. Good luck.
 
#29 ·
Bree, I took an antidepressant for about two years for my back pain and it was like a magic pill until it just quit working. I'm interested in the vitamin D studies as my endo has me taking great big doses of it now. She thinks it really is magic so told me to try it. By the way, when I took the a.d. it was off label. So it's been a while.
 
#30 ·
Interesting that it just stopped working! I've heard of that with NSAIDs and antidepressants. For some reason the body becomes resistant to a certain molecule and it needs a rest for a little while (switch medication) until it sensitized again.

Vitamin D3 is just an amazing seco hormone. Truly. Over the past month I've read three books and over 200 studies. Vitamin D3 must, however, be taken with Vitamin K2 (MK-4 or MK-7) if taken in large doses (at a ratio of 10:1) if you are using megadose of Vitamin D3. I took 50,000 iu yesterday, only 20,000 iu today. Just trying to find the dose that is most therapeutic. But, truly get some Vitamin K to prevent calcification of organs.

Very exciting!!!! :D
 
#31 ·
You know that the max aspirin dosage (generally speaking) is 4,000mg a day
 
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