Fat intake while overweight

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Fat intake while overweight


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Old 02-02-2013, 16:22   #1
 
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Default Fat intake while overweight

Link http://www.gutsense.org/fibermenace/fm_chapter3.html


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Old 02-02-2013, 16:29   #2
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I would tend to agree in theory about eating excess fat. But would add "without eating excess protein".

I lost weight quicikly on the Atkins Induction/PhaseI diet. As I increased fats beyond what would have been optimal for me (IMO), my weight loss stalled.

It's a real balancing act. Right now I'm not willing to give up the nuts, which seem to cause the problem for me. So I don't lose weight. Neither do I gain (which is good).

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Old 02-02-2013, 17:34   #3
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I opened the link and began to read, but it is filled with rumors, inaccuracies and outright lies, delivered with a snarky attitude. I refuse to dignify it by reading further.

For one, the cause of Robert Atkins' death: this genius accepts the lies which were perpetrated by Neal Barnard and his Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, through illegal and extremely irresponsible means.

For two, it appears this author has a book for sale. That alone makes me wary of believing anything he has to say.

And for three, this is not a weight-loss forum, although weight loss figures into diabetes control. If Mr. Monastyrsky has advice for safely and effectively controlling blood sugar, I'd like to see it.




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Old 02-02-2013, 18:19   #4
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Originally Posted by VeeJay View Post
I would tend to agree in theory about eating excess fat. But would add "without eating excess protein".

I lost weight quicikly on the Atkins Induction/PhaseI diet. As I increased fats beyond what would have been optimal for me (IMO), my weight loss stalled.

It's a real balancing act. Right now I'm not willing to give up the nuts, which seem to cause the problem for me. So I don't lose weight. Neither do I gain (which is good).
Mixed nuts have about the three nutrients in approximately 80g of fat to 31g of carbs to 24g of protein. Why on earth would you ASSUME that the issue is the fat?

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Old 02-02-2013, 18:30   #5
 
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Originally Posted by Shanny View Post
I opened the link and began to read, but it is filled with rumors, inaccuracies and outright lies, delivered with a snarky attitude. I refuse to dignify it by reading further.

For one, the cause of Robert Atkins' death: this genius accepts the lies which were perpetrated by Neal Barnard and his Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, through illegal and extremely irresponsible means.

For two, it appears this author has a book for sale. That alone makes me wary of believing anything he has to say.

And for three, this is not a weight-loss forum, although weight loss figures into diabetes control. If Mr. Monastyrsky has advice for safely and effectively controlling blood sugar, I'd like to see it.
I first posted a little bit from the whole article than i deleted it as i thought it would be better to read the whole thing and make up your own mind. If you keep reading he clearly states that carbs a bad. He is big on Fat btw that's why i deleted what i first wrote as to get his picture one has to read the whole thing. Regarding his Book and him trying to make money from it he has actually put 95 of his book online FREE for everyone to read every page has links which lead to other articles and more links so if one wanted he can basically read the whole book online for free and not buy it unlike most others who are selling something.

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Old 02-02-2013, 18:33   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanny View Post
I opened the link and began to read, but it is filled with rumors, inaccuracies and outright lies, delivered with a snarky attitude. I refuse to dignify it by reading further.

For one, the cause of Robert Atkins' death: this genius accepts the lies which were perpetrated by Neal Barnard and his Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, through illegal and extremely irresponsible means.

For two, it appears this author has a book for sale. That alone makes me wary of believing anything he has to say.

And for three, this is not a weight-loss forum, although weight loss figures into diabetes control. If Mr. Monastyrsky has advice for safely and effectively controlling blood sugar, I'd like to see it.
I agree. I love this guy because he wrote a book called "Fiber Menace" from which I've seen some quotes. From many things I've read, I honestly believe that this whole fiber mania is another misguided mass hysteria which urgently needs to taste the dust. I has been very hard for most to believe that fats don't cause heart disease (or weight gain!) and it will be even harder to believe that fiber isn't good for you, but I believe they're all true.

I did get some good points, however. He talks about people going into Atkins Induction with a pre-existing fiber "addiction" which then gives them problems. Also, the whole "induction" thing clearly has a commercial side. I'm pretty sure the good doctor knew that most of that weight lost during induction was just as described in this article but probably saw it more as a motivator to continue than anything else.

Much of the rest is repetition of tired old lies about low-carb in general. It's outrageous that he classes fats with protein for "constructive" purposes. Fats are first and foremost and ENERGY source and the only alternative to glucose (carbs/protein). It's amazing that he misses that altogether.

The thing about constipation is weird to me. My path was precisely the opposite. I had frequent constipation which was getting worse and worse in spite if increasing doses of fiber running up to diagnosis. As I transitioned to LC/HF (which took about 4 months), all of that completely disappeared along with any need for fiber. I developed an extremely regular and reliable cycle for the first time in my life.

Another things I get from it is that transitioning rapidly is probably a very bad idea for many people. That's why I don't read diet books or follow ANYONE'S diet. I ended up on a ketogenic diet by trial and error and never made any sudden changes.

But the line is that "if you don't lose weight, the diet is not good" is also (to use his words) a load of crap. Of course it is possible to cheat or do any diet incorrectly, be in denial about what you're really eating and any number of other individual problems which can lead to claims that "it didn't work for me".

Because he ignores ketosis, he also has no knowledge that once fats are converted to ketones, they CAN'T be involved in weight gain - they are either utilized for cellular energy, excreted in urine or EXHALED with the breath. If you're still clinging to calories-in/calories-out, when ketosis is involved, you have to count those!

Ketosis is NOT lipolysis. It is a specific state where ketones are being created and cells are switching OFF glucose to FFAs and ketones. It is not equivalent to low-carb. There is plenty of room to eat low-carb - even very low-carb - and still fail to achieve ketosis.

He also incorrectly states that there is a fixed need for glucose. 200g per day plus "extras" is for someone NOT producing ketones and not in ketosis. Since 95% of the body's cells can "switch", obviously, this requirement can drop by quite a lot. On a ketogenic diet the liver can VERY easily meet the remaining requirement even with no help from dietary carbs.

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A1C 7/2012: 5.5 (DX + 2 years 10 months)
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Old 02-02-2013, 18:39   #7
 
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Mixed nuts have about the three nutrients in approximately 80g of fat to 31g of carbs to 24g of protein. Why on earth would you ASSUME that the issue is the fat?
That sounds logical smorgan what you say but the way Mr. Monastyrsky explains it eating access Fat while over weight your body will first burn the fat you intake before it burns the fat in your body he says too much fat eaten for overweight individuals ONLY.....will slow down weight loss according to him this sounds logical too.

Nuts are very fatty

once someone reaches there right weight and dont have as much excess fat than eating high fat is different i think compared to someone who is very overweight with plenty of stored fat.

from the link

Quote:
If you consume less than 200 g glucose, the body will “burn” fat to compensate for the shortage at a rate of about 1 gram of fat for every 2 grams of glucose. That‘s how you lose fat. Dr. Atkins incorrectly called this process ketosis, because the ketones are the intermediary product of the biochemical reactions which convert fatty acids into cellular energy. The correct name is lipolysis.
Before converting body fat into glucose, the body utilizes fatty acids derived from food. Thus, if you have too much fat in the diet, the body will not “burn” its own fat until disposing of all fat from food. That means consuming above 75 g of dietary fat stops the loss of body fat dead in its tracks.
If you consume less than 75 g of fat, the body will “draw” on its own fat to produce enzymes, hormones, vitamins, cell membranes, and other essential substances. That‘s how you are losing fat.
If you consume more than 75 g of fat, the body will dispatch the excess right under your skin. That‘s how you gain fat.
If you consume less than 53 g of protein, the body will break muscle tissue into the amino acids needed for building cells, neurotransmitters, hormones, digestive enzymes, and other essential structures and substances. The process is called “muscle wasting.” You certainly can lose weight this way, but, for obvious reasons, it isn‘t desirable weight loss, and it isn‘t a loss of fat.
If you consume more than 53 g protein, the body will convert certain excesses into muscle tissue. The stronger the muscles, the more protein they will take. You gain weight that way, but this isn‘t from fat, and it is a very desirable weight gain. However, if you don‘t have strong muscles (just like most women and children), the excess will get converted into glucose, and the excess glucose will get converted into body fat. And that‘s how you gain body fat from overeating protein.

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Old 02-02-2013, 18:49   #8
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Originally Posted by Zuko View Post
That sounds logical smorgan what you say but the way Mr. Monastyrsky explains it eating access Fat while over weight your body will first burn the fat you intake before it burns the fat in your body he says too much fat eaten for overweight individuals ONLY.....will slow down weight loss according to him this sounds logical too.

Nuts are very fatty

once someone reaches there right weight and dont have as much excess fat than eating high fat is different i think compared to someone who is very overweight with plenty of stored fat.

from the link
You will get much more bang for your buck reducing either carbs or protein than you will reducing fat. What is the meaning of "more" fat, anyway? This is about ratios, not absolute amounts. All I know is that if I eat for example 80% of calories from fat and less than 15% from protein, it is physically impossible for me to eat enough to gain any weight. Especially in ketosis, fat just doesn't cause weight gain - at least not in any significant way compared to carbs AND protein which directly and reliably cause weight gain. Much fat when in ketosis is converted to ketones which can never go back to being fat and can't be stored. They are either used or excreted. He missed on a lot of points.

If nuts cause you to gain weight, I personally have zero doubt that it is the carbs and protein which is doing it, not the fat.

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A1C 2/2010: 6.7 (DX + 4 months)
A1C 5/2010: 6.0 (DX + 8 months)
A1C 8/2010: 5.7 (DX + 11 months)
A1C 11/2010: 5.1 (DX + 14 months)
A1C 9/2011: 5.6 (DX + 2 years)
A1C 7/2012: 5.5 (DX + 2 years 10 months)
A1C 1/2019: 5.5
Diet: Approximately C:10;P:15;F:75 (as % calories)
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Old 02-02-2013, 18:53   #9
 
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One thing i don't understand is he says he does not eat vegetables himself because in his opinion vegetables are high in Fiber which according to him is bad.

He also states that Fiber once consumed wants more fiber so the more fiber you eat the more you body wants to eat again.

However he does say his diet it mainly Fat Meat and i think Basmatti rice he thinks pork is the best meat as Okinawa who seem to have a long life longevity span basically eat pork as their main meat when he argues that point across, and Rice which he says he eats himself daily.

Problem against he veggie debate is Okinawa's eat lots of veggies i think. But he does say Soluble veggies are fine when limited he is more against the insoluble.


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Old 02-02-2013, 19:03   #10
 
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You will get much more bang for your buck reducing either carbs or protein than you will reducing fat. What is the meaning of "more" fat, anyway? This is about ratios, not absolute amounts. All I know is that if I eat for example 80% of calories from fat and less than 15% from protein, it is physically impossible for me to eat enough to gain any weight. Especially in ketosis, fat just doesn't cause weight gain - at least not in any significant way compared to carbs AND protein which directly and reliably cause weight gain. Much fat when in ketosis is converted to ketones which can never go back to being fat and can't be stored. They are either used or excreted. He missed on a lot of points.

If nuts cause you to gain weight, I personally have zero doubt that it is the carbs and protein which is doing it, not the fat.

Did you have a lot of weight to lose yourself it might be different from one to another because if you only have 20 to 50 pounds its a big difference than some one who has to lose 100 to 300 even 400 pounds. As they have a much bigger storage of fat on them than someone 20 pounds 50 pounds overweight.

smorgan there are many who eat high fat low protein and carbs Ketogenic ways but cant lose weight unless they restrict calories once they do they start losing weight how would you explain this?

They do stick to 15% protein and 5-10% carbs rest is fat but stall and only lose more if they restrict calories fat etc.

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