5:2 diet - Page 2

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Old 08-18-2013, 03:53   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron1963 View Post
Thanks for that reply. I guess I'm still confused about intermittent fasting and how it relates to protein need and for those trying to remain in ketosis. If you go on a one-day fast of not eating anything, you won't be getting any protein. Is that a bad idea? I've heard you should get a minimum of protein. And what about the ketogenic ratio you mentioned elsewhere? If you ate nothing all day, the formula comes out to 0/0, which is undefined (you cannot calculate anything divided by 0). If you even have a completely trivial amount of carbs and no protein or fat, the ratio computes to 0, because 0 divided by anything is 0. If you ate just fat, and not protein or carbs, even if the amount of fat was totally trivial, the calculation comes to 9.0. So most definitely I don't see how the ketogenic ratio is useful when talking about no intake whatsoever, or some trivial amounts. I suppose it isn't really useful until you get above some certain base amount. So anyways, my point is that if someone is trying to stay in ketosis, what do you do about fasting days, where you have conflicting goals of getting enough protein, and maintaining KR. It seems they are impossible goals to meet without eating a lot of fat, which then is not really fasting, is it? And if the fasting is all day, and a complete fasting, then it's impossible to meet either protein or KR goals.
There are two ways ketosis comes about: 1) eating with a high ketogenic ratio and 2) not eating at all.

Starving people also go into ketosis. Many people eating "regular" (SAD) diet may produce ketones briefly in the hours before dawn at the maximum point since they have eaten. (Probably not anyone who was snacking until 11 pm, though.)

Maybe someone else has information, but I highly doubt if having no incoming protein for 16 or even 24 hours has any harmful effects.

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A1C 8/2010: 5.7 (DX + 11 months)
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Old 08-18-2013, 04:13   #12
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Starving people also go into ketosis. Many people eating "regular" (SAD) diet may produce ketones briefly in the hours before dawn at the maximum point since they have eaten. (Probably not anyone who was snacking until 11 pm, though.)
That's interesting, I didn't know that before. Perhaps that explains the acetone smell on my breath in the morning when I first awake, being that's the longest fasting time I was doing. So I guess that alone isn't any indication of if I'm in constant ketosis or not.

Well, starting today I'm going to do at least a one-meal fast every few days, and see how it goes, then maybe try to increase my fasting to two or three meals on certain days. And I won't worry about the fasting affecting my ketosis, but just try to keep my ratio high on the meals I do eat, and not worry about missed protein during the fasting. I already skipped lunch today, and so far feel great still, with no hunger at all, but still 5 hours to go till dinner. Given the total fasting time is just 12 hours, and that's the same for my fasting every day from supper till breakfast, it shouldn't be difficult, even though I will be awake during all that time. Going for a full day of fasting though might be a bit more difficult. I think I'll eliminate my exercise on those days. I don't want my exercise to cause any unnecessary muscle loss due to not consuming any protein in conjunction with the exercise.

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Old 08-18-2013, 06:21   #13
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As regards the topic of this thread, which is the 5:2 diet, the fasting days are not total fasts - 500 or 600 calories is the recommendation - so maintain your proper ratios, but on a very small scale.




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Old 08-18-2013, 14:50   #14
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When I first joined the forum a few months ago, I mentioned that I was on the 5:2 diet. I was jumped rather quickly about the "anything you want" aspect of the diet, and rightly so. For a diabetic, we really cannot follow that part of the diet. However, fasting in conjunction with a low carb diet on the other 5 days has worked well for me, both in BG levels and in losing weight. In fact, the LC causes weight loss quicker than the fasting does. You simply adjust the fat content lower for more weight loss.

When I first started the 5:2 diet, I had just been diagnosed diabetic. My A1c was 7.5%, cholesterol was 322, blood pressure 158/93. After approximately 4 weeks of the diet, my A1c dropped to 6.7%, cholesterol 171, and blood pressure was still high at 164/85. Keep in mind that I was eating the "anything I want" version at this point. So, I would say that I achieved good results with the diet. Reading Dr. Mosley's book gives a good description of why the diet may be good for a diabetic. Basically, fasting has been found to have many good effects.

I have never had either spikes or hypoglycemia while fasting. Now, I eat LC on my 5 off days. My BG levels are genrally in good ranges, except for the occasional "test food" that causes a spike. I have not had a new A1c test. That comes in December. My initial concerns about combining fasting and LCHF are largely gone at this point. It seems to work well for me.

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Old 08-18-2013, 14:57   #15
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Aaron, you do not stop consuming protein on fasting days. For instance, I eat a salad with yogurt based dressing and a can of tuna or salmon for one meal. That has about 200 calories, but also has 15-20 grams of protein. And, exercise during a fast is not harmful at all. In fact, it is pretty invigorating. The belief that a short term fast leaves one weak and unable to function at a high level is inaccurate. Long term deprivation is a problem, but short term fasting has none of those effects. In fact, loss of muscle mass is a major factor in limiting the fast to 2 days.

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Old 08-18-2013, 16:15   #16
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Originally Posted by RedScare View Post
When I first joined the forum a few months ago, I mentioned that I was on the 5:2 diet. I was jumped rather quickly about the "anything you want" aspect of the diet, and rightly so. For a diabetic, we really cannot follow that part of the diet. However, fasting in conjunction with a low carb diet on the other 5 days has worked well for me, both in BG levels and in losing weight. In fact, the LC causes weight loss quicker than the fasting does. You simply adjust the fat content lower for more weight loss.

When I first started the 5:2 diet, I had just been diagnosed diabetic. My A1c was 7.5%, cholesterol was 322, blood pressure 158/93. After approximately 4 weeks of the diet, my A1c dropped to 6.7%, cholesterol 171, and blood pressure was still high at 164/85. Keep in mind that I was eating the "anything I want" version at this point. So, I would say that I achieved good results with the diet. Reading Dr. Mosley's book gives a good description of why the diet may be good for a diabetic. Basically, fasting has been found to have many good effects.

I have never had either spikes or hypoglycemia while fasting. Now, I eat LC on my 5 off days. My BG levels are genrally in good ranges, except for the occasional "test food" that causes a spike. I have not had a new A1c test. That comes in December. My initial concerns about combining fasting and LCHF are largely gone at this point. It seems to work well for me.
What I would do - and have done sometimes - is fast for at least 16 hours (18 even better) on those two days from ALL food and drink. I find that to be very beneficial.

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DX: 9/2009 A1C=10.7
A1C 2/2010: 6.7 (DX + 4 months)
A1C 5/2010: 6.0 (DX + 8 months)
A1C 8/2010: 5.7 (DX + 11 months)
A1C 11/2010: 5.1 (DX + 14 months)
A1C 9/2011: 5.6 (DX + 2 years)
A1C 7/2012: 5.5 (DX + 2 years 10 months)
A1C 1/2019: 5.5
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Old 08-18-2013, 16:36   #17
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What I would do - and have done sometimes - is fast for at least 16 hours (18 even better) on those two days from ALL food and drink. I find that to be very beneficial.
Yeah, that's more what I was thinking...whenever I'm fasting, have it be a total fast of no food, rather than just limiting the type of food I'm eating. Maybe that's not the concept of this 5:2 diet, I don't know as I didn't really check it out being I'm not at all interested in a diet where you can eat all you want at certain points.

My one-meal fast for today went well, with no extra hunger than on days when I eat three meals, so maybe I'll do one more like this and then next week try two days of skipping two meals.

People have been fasting for at least thousands of years I believe. Sometimes for religious reasons, or for making a statement, or whatever. But it seems to me people from a long time ago have found there is some benefit in fasting. And if it gets a person in ketosis, perhaps it was some sort of tool for better mental health used by the ancient cultures, even if they didn't understand the exact science behind it. Well for me, I like it for the idea of providing some temporary deeper ketosis, plus the hope that it'll help in doing a better job of completely clearing out the glucose, and leave some more room for any excess when I do eat.

I wonder if it's practiced enough if there's any sort of learning/memory by the body of this situation so that it gets in the habit of better cleaning out the glucose all the time. Or perhaps just the opposite, always alternating between fasting and not fasting, so the body doesn't know what's coming next, so just gives up and goes ahead and uses the glucose it's got and doesn't care about storing it. Well, I suppose best not to try to second guess what the body might do and just get on with it and see how it affects me personally.

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Old 08-18-2013, 20:08   #18
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What I would do - and have done sometimes - is fast for at least 16 hours (18 even better) on those two days from ALL food and drink. I find that to be very beneficial.
That is really the form my fasting has taken, especially lately. My last meal is the evening before at around 6 pm. I do not eat breakfast, and lunch is after noon, or sometimes even later. The book suggests that this may be a more effective fast than simply eating 600 calories spread over 24 hours. I agree. The only food or drink I consume during my 18-20 hours is coffee, water, and an 8 ounce glass of V8 that I drink with my medicine.

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