Diet Experiment

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Diabetes Diet and Nutrition A healthy, well balanced, nutritious diet which factors in Diabetes can be crucial for the long term management of Diabetes. Use this section to discuss your diet, what you would like to try, swap recipes and more.


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Diet Experiment


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Old 01-16-2014, 01:52   #1
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Hi, everybody, long time, no see. Last time I posted I was at the end of my low-carb rope, getting a morning blood sugar of 145 on under 30 grams of carbs a day. And my doc would not treat it in any way because my HbA1C was under 7.

I read on this website about an experiment at the University of Newcastle which tried putting type 2 diabetics on an extremely low calorie diet to simulate the limited food intake of a person who has had gastric bypass surgery. 70% of the people (a small sample number, to be sure) became, and remained, non-diabetic after 2 months on this diet. I talked to my doctor, and got the go-ahead to go on the 600-800 calorie per day diet for a couple months. The diet consists primarily of 3 each 200 calorie nutrition drinks. I have been drinking Glucerna. Then up to 200 calories a day of primarily vegetables.

After 15 days on this diet I have lost about 6 pounds, but my fasting blood sugar in the morning has dropped from 145 to 113 to 92. I have lost a noticeable amount of belly fat, which I hope means I am losing the visceral fat that seems to be the key to "curing" my diabetes.

I will keep you posted on my progress. The first 2 weeks on the diet were very hard, but it seems to have become easier. And I am "cheating" occasionally, too. We were out the other day, and I ate a McDonald's cheeseburger, with half the bun removed, for about 230-250 calories instead of one of my nutrition drinks. I stayed within my calorie allowance for the day, as I always do.

In general I prefer a low carb rather than low calorie approach, but for a 70% chance of curing even long-standing type 2 diabetes like mine I can do anything for 2 months.

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Old 01-16-2014, 02:14   #2
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Welcome back, cathyy!

How does this plan work over the long term? If you get to the place where you're called 'cured', must you continue this way-of-eating indefinitely? Is there a maintenance phase of some kind, and what is it like?




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Old 01-16-2014, 03:00   #3
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Good to see you, Shanny! Oh, good heavens, I could not eat like this indefinitely, nor would any doc recommend it. The "maintenance plan" is eating sanely, bearing in mind that daily intake needs to remain a bit lower than it was before the diet. Going back to the standard American diet and those oversized American portions would no doubt cause the diabetes to recur, IMHO. I will be avoiding highly processed foods in general, but that is a pretty ingrained habit by now, as is low carb. Dinner is meat and a veggie and sometimes a salad, too, in my house, and I don't plan to add a starch to it. Unless I am making something like fried rice, or hash, and that would be only on occasion.

I plan to resume a low-carb diet, but not as crazy low as before. I want to be able to eat my homemade muesli with my home made yogurt! With luck I will be able to eat a limited number of carbs, but wheat will remain off-limits for me. I have heard that one way to maintain is to use the drinks as a meal replacement once a day, a couple days a week.

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Metformin 1000mg bid
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Cinnamon, 1000 mg bid
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Vitamin D3 5000 mg qd
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Old 01-16-2014, 05:50   #4
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When you were eating low-carb and having stubborn morning numbers, how much protein were you eating? This is a very typical result for one eating low-carb but high-protein. Most of the excess protein (above actual need) is converted to glucose. It can't show up in post meal checks because it takes longer than two hours for this digestion and conversion to happen. But, it's definitely there and the logical place for it to show up is in the morning. This slow and late extra glucose is mostly stored as glycogen in the liver and of course that store is what fuels the morning glucose dumps.

Reducing the role of protein in your diet as well as carbs IMO would have been a more straightforward, logical and most likely sufficient solution. Of course, the inescapable math of what I just said means you have to dramatically increase fats in your diet.

I believe the starvation you are doing now is a very bad idea, we probably don't even know all the bad ramifications yet. All you are really doing is drastically reducing the incoming glucose. As described above, there are better ways to do that without starving your body and living in an energy-deprived state.
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Old 01-16-2014, 07:22   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cathyy View Post
Last time I posted I was at the end of my low-carb rope, getting a morning blood sugar of 145 on under 30 grams of carbs a day. And my doc would not treat it in any way because my HbA1C was under 7.
Cathy:

When you were on the 30 grams of carb daily, what were
your 2 hr PP's like and your A1C?

No doubt, you are familiar with dawn phenomenon which could
have caused your morning fasting numbers to be high.

I'll be following your posts on this experiment.

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Old 01-16-2014, 08:46   #6
 
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I did some reading about this when someone asked a question about it in the past. There were only 11 people in the study. The researchers theorized that excess fat stored in the pancreas is the cause of type 2 in some people. The purpose of the diet was to remove the excess fat from the pancreas. That tells me the recommended 'maintenance plan' will be low fat. Low fat and low carb are not a good combination.

Sounds like a person starves themselves for 2 months, then eats low carb the rest of their life. That's exactly the same thing all of us are doing here, except we are skipping the starvation part.

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Old 01-16-2014, 09:47   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmo View Post
I did some reading about this when someone asked a question about it in the past. There were only 11 people in the study. The researchers theorized that excess fat stored in the pancreas is the cause of type 2 in some people. The purpose of the diet was to remove the excess fat from the pancreas. That tells me the recommended 'maintenance plan' will be low fat. Low fat and low carb are not a good combination.

Sounds like a person starves themselves for 2 months, then eats low carb the rest of their life. That's exactly the same thing all of us are doing here, except we are skipping the starvation part.
Yes and moreover the concept that the way to reduce fat in the pancreas (and liver) is to eat less fat is fallacious. What causes those fat deposits is a HIGH-CARB diet, not the fat in diet. Fructose is especially notorious in this regard (the other half of sugar). I guess starvation could do the same thing, but it's not a very smart way to get there.

As ironic as it seems, since fat and glucose (from either carbs or protein) are the only energy alternatives for ATP (cellular energy), the way to reduce those fat droplets in pancreas and liver is to eat a HIGH FAT diet. This is because on an energy-balanced diet increasing fat necessarily reduces the role of the other two (the glucose producers). Proteins need to stay "normal" (moderate), so that by definition is a low-carb diet. But, without the high-fat part your metabolism just adjusts down and it doesn't work.

Similar to fat in circulation (triglycerides). They go UP on a high-glucose diet and go down (like a STONE) on a very high-fat diet. Go figure.

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Diet: Approximately C:10;P:15;F:75 (as % calories)
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Old 01-16-2014, 11:03   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smorgan View Post
Similar to fat in circulation (triglycerides). They go UP on a high-glucose diet and go down (like a STONE) on a very high-fat diet. Go figure.
This is the absolute truth - 'like a STONE'! And the converse is also true - consuming carbs after having gotten lipids in control will send your triglycerides over the moon in about 48 hours if not less. I have the lab results to prove it.




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Old 01-16-2014, 12:14   #9
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You do realize that this research project through Newcastle University was funded by Diabetes UK, and that diabetes UK offers the same standard of advice as the ADA, right? Just something you may want to consider, since they're the sponsoring organization that completely funded (100%) this experiment. According to the sponsor, diabetics should "opt for carbs that are more slowly absorbed. Try: pasta, basmati or easy-cook rice; granary, pumpernickel or rye bread; new potatoes, sweet potatoes and yams; oat-based cereals, such as porridge or natural muesli" (source - Top tips for healthy eating - Diabetes UK)

They seem to have found this 'cure' and the 1st organization they presented it to was the ADA, likely in hopes of encouraging the same type of 'treatment' in the U.S. This tells me that they ran to the ADA with it after only testing it on eleven people. I would question why - did they need more funding or was there some other motive? After all, the ADA already encourages diabetics to eat carbs, so I could possibly see them encouraging diabetics to drop their calories to starvation level, as well.

It's just something to consider.

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Old 01-16-2014, 14:33   #10
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"Cure" is not attached to LCHF as it is to the temporary ways of eating. That makes it more alluring to many.

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