Fasting and High BG

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Fasting and High BG


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Old 05-24-2015, 01:36   #1
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Default Fasting and High BG

Before I was diagnosed with diabetes I used to follow a Primal Diet (then went off the rails for a few years). I used to do IF (intermittent fasting) as part of it. I keep hearing seeing conflicting views/studies on it. Some say it helps type 2s, some say it makes insulin resistance worse. I have attempted it several times, but when I don't eat at reasonable times (4 hours seems to be the sweet spot - pardon the pun! with me) my BG rises, not falls. If I oversleep in the a.m., my fasting numbers are awful. So I am utterly confused if this is ultimately a good or bad practice to incorporate. Looking for some advice. Thanks!

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Old 05-24-2015, 01:59   #2
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I don't think you're going to find any one-size-fits-all answer to this. Each of us has to figure out what works best in our own individual circumstances. I practice strict LCHF, but if I go too long without eating, my blood sugar rises; dawn phenomenon has always been an issue for me. Others who practice strict LCHF can go 8/10/12 hours between meals and no problem. If anyone has a single solid solution, I haven't heard it yet.




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Old 05-24-2015, 02:19   #3
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Default Intermittent Fasting

Shanny is correct - one-size-does-not-fit-all. I have two friends that can get away with intermittent fasting. Both are on different degrees of low carb and not on any medications. Both exercise to different strategies.

Another friend and I also use intermittent fasting, but it does not work for me, but my friend has success with it. Both of us are on insulin and I am more overweight than he is, but not by much.

With type 2 diabetes, we have found that we have to experiment on ourselves (be our own lab rat) and trust what we find out. I seldom have effects from the dawn phenomenon, but three other friends do and all four of us are on insulin and should not have this happen.

Body chemistry and age are variables that affect each person differently.

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Old 05-24-2015, 03:04   #4
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I have Dawn Phenomenon and am on insulin. I wasn't a pattern until I came home from rehab and had a period without having one for a few months. Then my pattern totally switched to what it was when I had GD (high fastings, post prandial OK). Totally frustrates me and can't figure out the rise.

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Old 05-24-2015, 08:11   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terriemcphee View Post
Before I was diagnosed with diabetes I used to follow a Primal Diet (then went off the rails for a few years). I used to do IF (intermittent fasting) as part of it. I keep hearing seeing conflicting views/studies on it. Some say it helps type 2s, some say it makes insulin resistance worse. I have attempted it several times, but when I don't eat at reasonable times (4 hours seems to be the sweet spot - pardon the pun! with me) my BG rises, not falls. If I oversleep in the a.m., my fasting numbers are awful. So I am utterly confused if this is ultimately a good or bad practice to incorporate. Looking for some advice. Thanks!
IF as I understand it means 16 - 18 hours. Have you taken it that far? I would try extending it however long it takes to see when the glucose goes back down.

The key to this may be getting liver glycogen truly depleted. This deprives those signalling hormones of the material they need to cause the BG rise. That's what fixes it for me, anyway.

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Old 05-24-2015, 13:10   #6
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Non-medicated T2. I am a huge proponent of IF.

When I decided I needed to invoke autophagy again, I waited until by BG levels were low and stable. Then I started fasting via very low calorie/skipped meals. My liver responded by dumping glucose. But not high enough to worry me, I waited it out. Over a period of weeks that did go lower and lower.

I think the question of will IF improve insulin/glucose function depends on the real cause of the person's diabetes. Each of us is different.

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Old 05-24-2015, 16:04   #7
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I have tried shortening the window (down to a 6 hour so fasting for 18). I saw my BG shoot up so much that I stopped the experiment. I am almost never that hungry especially in the a.m. so that's not the issue. I'm guessing my liver stores must be the problem, either that or the signaling because my fastings are higher too. I don't know if I'm brave enough to fast for 3 days to deplete the stores enough but I may try very limited diet alternating and see if that's an acceptable substitute.

I am still healing my toe amputation so trying to be pretty scrupulous with my blood sugars, that's why the panic when they start to increase.

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Old 05-24-2015, 16:23   #8
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Sorry to hear about the amputation. Are you doing a LCHF way of eating? I do a lot of the paleo recipes for the meats, but have found their veggie recipes are too carbby for me. I myself can't do fasting (other than sleeping) my BS does go up from the times I've tried.

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Old 05-24-2015, 16:36   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terriemcphee View Post
I have tried shortening the window (down to a 6 hour so fasting for 18). I saw my BG shoot up so much that I stopped the experiment. I am almost never that hungry especially in the a.m. so that's not the issue. I'm guessing my liver stores must be the problem, either that or the signaling because my fastings are higher too. I don't know if I'm brave enough to fast for 3 days to deplete the stores enough but I may try very limited diet alternating and see if that's an acceptable substitute.

I am still healing my toe amputation so trying to be pretty scrupulous with my blood sugars, that's why the panic when they start to increase.
I did a 3-day fast (mostly because I was sick, but I took the opportunity). It was a wonderful experience. All readings were lower for many days after.

Anyway, if your hormones are kicking your liver to put out glucose when you fast, one or the other has to give. I don't know if there's any way to change the hormone pattern. There are at least 4 of them which can trigger glucose production from the liver and only one (insulin) to counter.

The alternative is to deplete liver glycogen. You shouldn't even have to fast to do this. Rather, you just strictly limit carbs AND protein for a number of days. You can eat fat all you want and stay satiated. In fact, you pretty much have to since if you're getting insufficient energy overall, other bad stuff begins to happen. This should finish off your stored glycogen in most cases in about three days, but some can take longer. If successful, then even if you do IF and the hormones go crazy, there won't be anything significant to "dump" from your liver.

Most people will notice a sudden drop in weight of about 4 - 5 pounds during that initial period. This is the glycogen, which accompanied by 4 times its weight in water, being purged. For me, that means carbs less than 30g per day and protein less than 45 or 50g. And, it needs to be continuous and consistent without interruption. A "goof" sends you back to square one and re-starts the clock.

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Old 05-24-2015, 16:48   #10
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I am doing LCHF. It was easy to adopt since I was used to cutting carbs from my primal days (big fan of Mark Sisson and he recommends ketogenic level of carbs for weight loss) I am always up for new recipes and I easily avoid the starches I make for the rest of my family. (I have 3 teenage boys and a construction worker hubby)...Salim, is this the "fat fast" I have heard mentioned but don't know much about? That doesn't sound too hard. I think I will try that and see if it works out OK for my BG.

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