Fasting for blood sugar control and/or weight loss

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Fasting for blood sugar control and/or weight loss


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Old 03-24-2016, 01:31   #1
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Default Fasting for blood sugar control and/or weight loss

Fasting is something I haven't yet tried doing. I know that there are diabetics who are doing some version of Intermittent Fasting (IF). I wondered if any of you are doing this and whether or not you find it helpful as a tool in managing your diabetes and/or weight. Please describe your experience with IF or any other form of fasting, and have you found it to be sustainable in the long-run.

For those who aren't familiar with IF, here's an article on it from Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermittent_fasting

Quote:
Intermittent fasting (IF) is an umbrella term for various diets that cycle between a period of fasting and non-fasting...... Another form involves eating for limited times every day. One might fast for 14, 16 to 23 hours and then eat healthily.

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Old 03-24-2016, 02:53   #2
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I did some fasting about 6 or 8 months ago and was very pleased with the results at the time. I fasted for about 36 hours (from 6 pm until 6 am two days later) and was very surprised with how little hunger I felt during that period. It wasn't a true water fast, though, I did allow myself a cup of bulletproof coffee and a couple cups of homemade bone broth when I did feel a bit of hunger. Maybe 500 calories in that 36 hours. Then I'd eat normally (keto) for 3 days and do another 36 hour fast.

My blood sugars dropped with each succeeding fasting period, and eventually I was getting FBGs in the low 70s and post meal readings around 100. I did this for about a month, then things happened and I stopped the IF. But I liked it - and very much liked the results. I also liked the simplicity of the program.

I'm considering trying it again in the near future, but (for me at least), it seems to take a certain mental attitude to get into the right mindset. I'm not there yet.

I know other folks have had great success with a 16:8 program and other similar IF programs. Many people say they enjoy great mental clarity and physical energy during fasting.

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Old 03-24-2016, 03:39   #3
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I've read about it but haven't yet tried it.

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Old 04-09-2016, 14:08   #4
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IF has come up in another thread, as has Edward Dewey's The No Breakfast Plan and the Fasting-Cure from the 1900s, which is gaining some popularity right now.
https://archive.org/stream/thenobrea...8gut/27128.txt

Since I really don't like to eat breakfast anyway, this seems like something I could try for a while at least. There seem to be other health benefits from this method, such as reducing or eliminating headaches, so we'll see what happens with this old body.

Today's FBG was 95, which is good, but I know from experience that it can rise about 20 pts over the next hour before going back down.

I'm also going to track the readings on my Ketonix meter. I've not seen red/high in months, and usually only see green/low. This morning was green, after several seconds' delay. (In the past, if I was well into ketosis, the color change would be starting before I finished breathing into it.)

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Old 04-09-2016, 16:37   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VeeJay View Post
Fasting is something I haven't yet tried doing. I know that there are diabetics who are doing some version of Intermittent Fasting (IF).
Thanks for starting this. I'm doing an up-to-8-week experiment that includes 16:8 fasting most days.

Based on the latest study by Dr. Taylor on inducing remission with a post-bariatric-surgery type diet, and where my research led me, I'm doing an up-to-8-week experiment of 800 calories a day + IF of at least 16 hours most days.

Dr. Taylor's theory was that it is not the bariatric surgery that puts 97% of diabetic patients into remission, but the near-starvation diet that triggers the body to consume the fat around the pancreas and liver. That is the basis of his two studies (100% remission in a very small group of newly diagnosed diabetics & about 50% when he widened the study to include long-term diabetics). Remission was defined as no meds and being able to eat an isocaloric diet (33% from each macro) with a normal BG response.

He has now backed off from his theory, and now says it's "just" weight loss to some personal fat threshold - which I think is pure bunk (in part because I've already lost well more than he suggests should be the magic number - and in part because it is so far from the theory he actually tested). So that drove me to do more research about what might be happening in the individuals in whom he documented remission (not only by finger-prick tests - but fairly extensive tests monitoring insulin response and MRI-measured fat content of the liver and pancreas).

In that research, I ran across IF - which suggests regularly forcing the liver to deplete its glycogen stores might be a useful addition to the calorie restriction, in terms of restoring the first phase insulin response (which seems to be the key to reversing the diabetic downward spiral). (The first phase insulin response shuts down the liver, removing that liver added glucose from the system - diabetics have lost that; eating low carbs has a similar impact by removing the dietary added glucose. The difference is that it is much more efficient for the body to use its own mechanisms than to manage it externally, so most LCHF diets don't move beyond very effective management to restoring the first phase response.

I'm nearing the end of week 2. Here are my results to date:

Week 1 - Fasting blood glucose: M: 91 (5.05 mmol/l), T: 95 (5.28 mmol/l) W: 91 (5.06) Th: 97 (5.39 (highest in months)) F: 80 (4.44) S: 79 (4.39) Sun: 80 (4.44)
Week 1 - High for the week: 139 (7.72), Low for the Week: 73 (4.06), Average for the week: 99 (5.5).8

Week 2 - Fasting blood glucose: M: 87(4.83 mmol/l), T: 85 (4.72) mmol/l W: 92 (5.11 mmol/l) Th: 86 (4.79 mmol/l) F: 87 (4.83 mmol/l) S: 78 (4.33) Sun:
Week 2 (so far) - High for the week 126 (7.17): Low for the Week 70 (3.80) , Average for the week: 96 (5.33)

I'm eating higher carb (both as a percentage of my diet & as an absolute) than I have been since October - because I am using Michael Mosley's 8-week blood sugar diet for content guidance, and he includes what he considers "friendly" carbs in the recipes. Last night I had a meal with 33 (45 gross) grams of carbs (chick peas, primarily). Testing at 1, 2, and 3 hours, the highest reading I got was 111 (6.17). Normally that quantity of carbs would have put me well north of 140 - probably near 180.

I don't know whether it is the IF, the severe calorie restriction, or Dr. Taylor's magical personal fat threshold - but something seems to be shifting.

I typically have my last meal between 10 PM and midnight and my first meal the next day between 2 PM and 4 PM, depending on how late I ate. But I'm not rigid about it.

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Old 04-09-2016, 18:57   #6
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I find fasting emotionally and physically difficult but I do find it helps a LOT with blood sugar control. Instead of IF, once every couple of months I fast for 2-3 days. Each time, my blood sugar comes down to gorgeous normal numbers (3.8-4.2) and increased insulin sensitivity (faster postprandial resolution) for the next month at least.

Note - I'm not on meds.

I just watched this about fasting yesterday. It certainly make sense and also explains why after 50 pounds or so my weight loss stopped, leaving me much slimmer but still with fat deposits and 30 pounds or so to go to get to ideal body weight. I'm not sure if I could do every other day fasting as described in the video, but lowering my overall insulin levels seems the best way to avoid complications of hyperinsulinemia. Guess I need to find a way to get more comfortable with fasting.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7sAqy1lnWXo


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Old 04-09-2016, 20:45   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tropopause View Post
I'm not sure if I could do every other day fasting as described in the video, but lowering my overall insulin levels seems the best way to avoid complications of hyperinsulinemia.
36:12 was one scenario I considered. From a body-perspective, I'd have no problem with it. I'm blessed (or perhaps cursed) to have a broken hunger trigger. I'm just never hungry - my eating is driven by convenience, taste, and emotional baggage that made me subconsciously want lots of layers of protective fat for decades. That means if I want to stop eating for 36 hours, and mentally commit to it, I don't have to fight physical urges to raid the fridge.

Socially was a bit more challenging. Although I have now told one family member what I am doing, I have not explicitly told another - and I haven't told anyone outside of my family. Not eating for 36 hours is a lot more obvious than not eating before 3-ish.

My research indicates that 16 hours is about the right trigger to deplete the glycogen stores, so the biggest bang for my buck is the 16-18 hour range.

But - there's not enough peer-reviewed, or well-controlled, studies to rise to the level of "need to" for health reasons.

My perspective is that it is harmless (at least for short durations) and there are enough studies out there to suggest a relationship between insulin regulation and fasting that it is worth my effort to try it out for a while.

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Old 04-10-2016, 01:32   #8
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In searching around for examples of skipping breakfast as IF, I found this blog that's a good read for a layman, along with links to studies, etc. This is not a diabetes site, but does explain the current application of IF.

The Beginner's Guide to Intermittent Fasting

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Old 04-10-2016, 01:45   #9
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Today was the first day of skipping breakfast. Can't report on anything much because 1) I had a short night so was tired most of the day, and 2) my stomach trouble was acting up so suffered from heartburn all day (all day yesterday, too, so it had nothing to do with skipping breakfast).

I am hoping that, after a time of doing 16:8 fasting that it will help with the gastroparesis that I have and that the hours of no digestion occurring will allow full stomach emptying and give the sphincter a rest. Could I dare hope that this will allow it to function better over time????

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Old 04-10-2016, 12:34   #10
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Now I am intrigued! I think I am going to try not eating between 5 PM and 9 AM. I already noticed that my sugar levels are low in the morning if I went to sleep hungry, so I can see how this can help even more.

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