Winomaster

I recently came across a book by a medical doctor, Jason Fung, who uses fasting in his treatment of diabetics. The book is "The Diabetes Code". You don't have to buy the book. Most of what he says can be found in his U-tube videos. Check him out there.

Inspired by what he had to say, I recently did six weeks of one-meal-a-day dieting (Loosely adhered to) and then five weeks of fasting. I lost 12 lbs in the first phase and then another 28 lbs in the second phase. For a total of 40 lbs. After the first 6 weeks of dieting I discovered that I could eliminate my entire dosage of long acting (Basal) insulin. And now, having finished up the fasting phase, as I have returned to eating the past two days I find I no longer need the short-acting insulin I had been taking. My after meal BG peak the past two days has been 111 and 112. And both of those meals were on the larger size. But, not particularly carb intensive. Though I am not eating a Keto style diet.

Dr Fung says that whatever your starting weight, when you begin to lose weight, the body first takes the visceral fat from inside the body cavity. This is the most dangerous fat, the fat that is penetrating the liver and the pancreas. This fat in the liver drives IR and the fat in the pancreas, according to Dr Fung, drives a suppression of the insulin producing capacity of the Beta cells.

I still remain 65 lbs overweight, but my diabetes has apparently, for the moment at least, been reversed. If I was to consume a massive amount of carbs, I might discover that my current insulin producing ability has its limits. But, being off the insulin altogether promises further reductions in my insulin resistance. Insulin drives insulin resistance.

I had been taking 40 units of Lantus x 2 and around 35 units Novalog at meals. Going to 0 insulin feels real good.

itissteve

Thanks, Winomaster. I've long suspected that staying low-carb let my pancreas "rest" enough so that if I underestimated the carbs in a meal out or occasionally ate something carby that I just had to try, my body was better able to recover from that than it was before low-carb. Dr. Fung's findings applies well to that. Always nice to know there's some science behind what I'm feeling.

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Now with less sugar!

A1c 10-30-2018 still 5.6 with no meds. Thank you LCHF!

mbuster

Congrats on your success Winomaster!!!

I started out strict OMAD for about 5 months, but have gotten a little looser lately. I haven't fasted more than 25-26 hours but I am curious to try doing 48-72 hours. I need to check up a little more on the Jason Fung videos, seen a few but probably not enough. I do Keto and find when I do eat some carby (starchy not sugary) things, like @itissteve, my BG does recover a lot better now than it did.

Insulin drives a lot of things besides shuttling glucose into cells, i.e. shuts down fat burning and increases fat storage. Hyperinsuliinemia and insulin resistance are also associated with inflammation and vascular disease.

__________________
Think I've had this since 2003. Told I was Type 2 lean on 2/13/12.
a1c 8.8 (8/2011) 5.4 (10/2018)
TC 206 LDL 102 HDL 85 TG 96 (10/2018)
Supplemental vitamins and electrolytes
63 YY Love the LCHF diet. The cheese goes well with my whine
updated 10/26/18

Winomaster

The problem I see with shorter fasts is that you take about three days to get into fat-burning mode. And you really don't feel that great during the first five days as the "pipes" clear and you make that changeover. You have to stay close to home. I had been a purely carb-burning machine. And this is why diabetics find it so hard to lose weight. Many require severe restriction of carbs or fasting to get insulin levels low enough that the fat can come out of storage. High insulin blocks fat release.

And the problem with longer fasts is that they say shouldn't try to be working or be under stress during a fast. So, for most people they would have to save up four weeks of vacation to do much of an extended fast. The longest fast on record is over a year where the guy started at about four hundred pounds. I could never go that long. I couldn't keep my mind off food well enough to avoid triggering insulin release with my thoughts. The point is to keep insulin levels low.

I'm going to do the one-meal-per-day routine now. (intermittent fasting) Limiting my eating to about four hours each day. Its also supposed to work well for diabetics.

In my third day since the fast, my post meal BG has come up. Instead of 111 postmeal, today I had 145 on a smaller meal. So, perhaps my cells were just refilling with glucose when I had the 111 and 112. I seem to have some more weight loss to do.

mbuster

I eat Keto, less than 30 grams of carbs per day, so I am in fat burning mode. I don't consider it sever restriction of carbs, but rather a necessary restriction of something I don't really need anyway.

Thats kind of the point of carb reduction too. Limiting the source of BG limits the amount of insulin secreted.

It has worked well for me since September. I eat in the afternoon or early evening. I often ride a bicycle on my off days and the rides are usually while in a fasted state and I'm not feeling a lack of energy.

How many grams of carbs was in that smaller meal?

__________________
Think I've had this since 2003. Told I was Type 2 lean on 2/13/12.
a1c 8.8 (8/2011) 5.4 (10/2018)
TC 206 LDL 102 HDL 85 TG 96 (10/2018)
Supplemental vitamins and electrolytes
63 YY Love the LCHF diet. The cheese goes well with my whine
updated 10/26/18

vicky3vicky

During the 5 week fast, did you consume nothing but water? I am so curious about longer fasting.

div2live

Winomaster, well done and thanks for sharing. I too lost a bunch of weight and still need to drop another 60-70lbs. I did it by following LCHF eating, nothing more. I went from 320lbs. to 250lbs. This all happened in less than 12 months. I did not increase my activity or do anything except follow LCHF.

robertprice

Wow, well done! I lost 40 lbs but it took almost a year. However, it was constant, about one lb a week. Doc said that was a realistic goal.

Now, I'm in kindergarten and you guys have PHD's on this subject so I'm sorry for my possibly naive comment. But what I have read / heard / about fasting is the possible reverse effect.

When the body goes into fasting mode, it "thinks" it's starving and will try to retain fat. Similarly, after fasting, it will try to retain all the new fat.

My doc prefers I eat 3-5 tiny meals rather than one or two large ones.

So is this theory antiquated? Naive? Just plain wrong?

[I obviously have a lot to learn]

mbuster

I think slow and steady is best. My wife, when she we were much younger, would try to starve herself to lose weight quickly. The weight would come off, but as soon as she returned to eating the stuff she always ate, it would come back.

WE were all where you are when we first joined the forum. Reverse effect? on Diabetes? Fasting can usually lower your BG, but if you break your fast with stuff that raises your BG. In that scenario I'd say no reversing effect. Break your fast with stuff that doesn't raise your BG, then I'd say there was a reversing effect. It is my opinion that maintaining normal BG numbers is the reversing effect and that is what I do. As long as I keep eating things that keeps from raising my BG, lab test will never show that I am diabetic. Let me eat an apple fritter, bowl of oatmeal, a slab of German chocolate cake, grapes, etc., my meter will read out the roof. That is the way it works for me.

Almost everyone at some point in time every day will quit burning glucose for fuel and will burn fat. Don't confuse fasting with starving but at some point in time your metabolism will slow down. Breaking the fast with stuff that raises your BG a bunch makes you produce more insulin. The insulin will shut down fat burning. If that glucose is not needed, then some is converted to glycogen and stored in the liver. The excess glucose is usually converted to triglycerides and the insulin will store that in your fat cells for future energy needs.

What is his reasoning for more meals? It may be necessary for certain circumstances.

The body can do funny things. I lost weight going to a LCHF way of eating from 240 lbs down to 185 lbs, I quit losing weight and actually gained 10 back and just leveled off at 195. I thought maybe I ought to cut some calories, so I weighed everything I ate for a while, figured what my carb, fat, and protein ratios were, and found that I was eating around 3300 kcal per day. I saw where I could cut some protein and carbs to lower the calories, but I still needed more fat in my diet to try and get in ketosis. I decided to pick up more on the fats first. Still weighing everything, I figured out that I was now eating 4100 kcal/day. And to my amazement without changing anything else, I started losing weight and before I knew it, that 10 lbs was gone again. Go figure!!!

__________________
Think I've had this since 2003. Told I was Type 2 lean on 2/13/12.
a1c 8.8 (8/2011) 5.4 (10/2018)
TC 206 LDL 102 HDL 85 TG 96 (10/2018)
Supplemental vitamins and electrolytes
63 YY Love the LCHF diet. The cheese goes well with my whine
updated 10/26/18

robertprice

It was many years ago when I had really high and dangerous blood pressure. That was just one of the things which worked. With only one mild BP pill now it's quite good.

So it was related to high BP and not BG, or weight or carbs.

[lots of good info--thanks]