I'm a Walking Mess...I Don't Know What to Do...

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Diabetes Diet and Nutrition A healthy, well balanced, nutritious diet which factors in Diabetes can be crucial for the long term management of Diabetes. Use this section to discuss your diet, what you would like to try, swap recipes and more.


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I'm a Walking Mess...I Don't Know What to Do...


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Old 06-04-2019, 05:05   #1
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Unhappy I'm a Walking Mess...I Don't Know What to Do...

I just had an a1c done yesterday and I am really scared. My results were 9.1, as they were also 3 months ago. My cholesterol is slightly elevated. I take 2000 mg. of Metformin daily.

I crave carbs constantly. I have tried doing Keto but my glucose levels dropped so drastically that I felt horrible. I also have reservations about eating so much high fat food because....hold onto your pants....I had coronary artery bypass surgery two years ago.

I have NO idea what to eat. The menus they give me to follow whenever I have met with nutritionists in the hospital after my surgery seem full of carbs. I'll admit I am a lousy Type 2 patient....I don't check my levels regularly. I'm ready to change that.

I became really discouraged while doing cardiac rehab. They always tested my bgl before therapy and if it was too high, they refused to do therapy. It was very often high. When I followed a LCHF diet, my levels were fine, but they also tested me during therapy and if they dropped below 80, they stopped therapy immediately. That also happened often.

I'm only 44 years old. I don't want to become insulin dependent. I don't want to ever have bypass surgery again. I just don't know what sort of meal plan to follow. I'm afraid LCHF will destroy my arteries further, but it seems like that's really what works for everyone. My cardiologist is ready to refer me to an endocrinologist, but darn it....I don't want to add one more "ologist" to my life.

Is it too late for me to turn this around? Any advice?

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Old 06-04-2019, 13:46   #2
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Welcome to Diabetes Forum, genxreader! I applaud your effort to gain control of your health.

Diabetes treatment is evolving, s l o w l y, as more study disproves old "conventional wisdom" and provides new understanding of the links between our organs and illnesses. Unfortunately, most health care providers deal with multiple illnesses and diseases in their patients so they are not as "into" current studies and treatment options as we might hope they would be.

Recent studies show a stronger link between peaky blood glucose levels and blood vessel inflammation (leading to arterial disease), weaker links between dietary cholesterol and blood cholesterol levels, and that the conventional marker for cholesterol levels in the body, LDL level, has proved to be insufficient as a sole marker of cardiac health.

We're not doctors, so we're careful to offer that kind of advice. But several of us have faced cardiac issues, including bypasses, and have moved to LCHF or keto diets to manage our diabetes and have enjoyed excellent health.

I would suggest trying keto -- or just LCHF -- again. It does take a little while to get past the carb cravings; keeping up fluid and electrolyte levels helps in avoiding that crummy feeling while your body gets over the constant flow of carbs and adapts to being fueled by protein and carbs.

And I would encourage a little study about the roles of LDL, HDL, and triglyceride levels in determining future risk of cardiac issues. Despite what you think might happen, a diet low in carbs and high in fat can improve LDL and triglyceride levels to the point at which cardiac risk is no greater than it is for the general populace.

All of us here are aware that not every mode of treatment works for everyone. But so many of us have done so well with LCHF/keto that I think it's worth your investigating how well it can work for you.

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Old 06-04-2019, 13:47   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genxreader View Post
I just had an a1c done yesterday and I am really scared. My results were 9.1,

I crave carbs constantly. I have tried doing Keto but my glucose levels dropped so drastically that I felt horrible.

I have NO idea what to eat.

I'm only 44 years old. I don't want to become insulin dependent. I don't want to ever have bypass surgery again. I just don't know what sort of meal plan to follow. I'm afraid LCHF will destroy my arteries further, but it seems like that's really what works for everyone. My cardiologist is ready to refer me to an endocrinologist, but darn it....I don't want to add one more "ologist" to my life.

Is it too late for me to turn this around? Any advice?
That sounds terrible - the only suggestion I can give you is try to transition to your new nutritional intake whatever that may be. Don't try to go from one extreme to another but instead ease in to it until you find your BG levels start to look better.

Someone like me who is insulin dependent - I eat low carb but not LCHF - it's a bit easier for me as I'm not trying to lose weight just trying to keep an acceptable BG level.

As well exercise is so important - try to remain as active as you can - maybe start walking a little bit more and see what impact that has on your BG levels.

I've been living with Type 1 for more than 52 years - nothing is static - I'm still making adjustments in the management of my own diabetes - most of us always have unexpected challenges and it's so easy to get frustrated.

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Old 06-05-2019, 04:35   #4
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I had quad bypass surgery 4 years ago. I didn't go to cardio rehab, my doctors never mentioned it when I was released to come home. I got a little booklet that talked about what I could and couldn't do and it encouraged exercising (walking). And I walked a lot. I averaged over 10,200 steps a day for the 30 days between getting home and going back to my first appointment with the surgeon.

I was already eating LCHF when I had my surgery, so I really wondered about if it was the right thing to keep doing. After lots of researching, I still eat LCHF, but I did look at some of the recommendations in the diet my cardiologist gave me and incorporated into my diet. I did substitute some fatty fish for other meats, cut back on some cheese and added more olive and flax seed oils. When asked about what I was eating, he was happy with my response that I was eating more Mediterranean than I was. For me, eating less than 30 grams of carbs per day is working very well.

The problem with most nutritionists recommended diets are that they are usually all too high in carbs, resulting in too high of BG levels. It's illogical to me why they continue to push on diabetics the very thing that creates the high BG levels then we have to be medicated to drive it back down.

A BG level of 80 is not dangerous, nor is a BG level of 70, nor is a BG level of 60. They call getting below 70 a hypo. It is not likely that there will be a medical problem if you get below 70 unless it is dropping fast, and that is not likely to happen to a type 2 diabetic only taking metformin. I've gotten down into the 50's on long bike rides, and the only clue I had that it was there was because I tested to see what it was.

Is it too late to turn things around, I wouldn't think so. But what do I know, I'm just a 64 year old diabetic that had quad bypass surgery 4 years ago and rides a bicycle on 40-50-60-70 mile rides.

Also, do as others recommend about setting a goal and making slow changes. Don't do things too drastic, that's my job.

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Think I've had this since 2003. Told I was Type 2 lean on 2/13/12.
a1c 8.8 (8/2011) 5.4 (10/2018)
TC 206 LDL 102 HDL 85 TG 96 (10/2018)
Supplemental vitamins and electrolytes
63 YY Love the LCHF diet. The cheese goes well with my whine

updated 10/26/18

Last edited by mbuster; 06-05-2019 at 04:39.
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Old 06-07-2019, 02:12   #5
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I was already eating LCHF when I had my surgery, so I really wondered about if it was the right thing to keep doing. After lots of researching, I still eat LCHF, but I did look at some of the recommendations in the diet my cardiologist gave me and incorporated into my diet. I did substitute some fatty fish for other meats, cut back on some cheese and added more olive and flax seed oils. When asked about what I was eating, he was happy with my response that I was eating more Mediterranean than I was. For me, eating less than 30 grams of carbs per day is working very well.

The problem with most nutritionists recommended diets are that they are usually all too high in carbs, resulting in too high of BG levels. It's illogical to me why they continue to push on diabetics the very thing that creates the high BG levels then we have to be medicated to drive it back down.

It does seem irrational that dietitians would recommend certain high-carbohydrate foods as part of the treatment for type 2 diabetes, but peer-reviewed case studies and dietary-intervention studies show that it actually can work.

Kaiser Permanente (the largest health insurance company in the United States) published this case study of a 63 year old man who greatly reduced his diabetes severity by (1) drastically reducing consumption of processed carbohydrates, (2) increasing his consumption of beans/legumes (which are rich in carbohydrates, but also rich in fiber), (3) increasing his intake of nuts (which are rich in unsaturated fat) and (4) greatly reducing his consumption of animal products (which are generally high in saturated fat) : Nutritional Update for Physicians: Plant-Based Diets

This comparison of low-carbohydrate vs. Mediterranean diets showed that both were effective dietary approaches to type 2 diabetes management: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23364002
. The Mediterranean diet includes minimally-processed carbohydrate-rich foods like beans and whole grains: https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-l...t/art-20047801

In this dietary intervention for type 2 diabetes, 11 of the 20 participants were able to discontinue their insulin therapy after only 16 days on a high-carbohydrate, high fiber diet: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/495550


I'm not claiming that a high-fiber, high-carbohydrate diet is more effective than a high-fat, low-carbohydrate diet in treating type 2 diabetes, because there is sufficient peer-reviewed evidence to show that HFLC diets are also effective. I am just presenting peer-reviewed studies which show that a low-fat, high-unprocessed-carbohydrate diet can be another effective option for controlling type 2 diabetes.

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Last edited by Runnerguy; 06-07-2019 at 02:26.
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Old 06-07-2019, 03:10   #6
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Here is Kaiser Permanente's plant-based nutrition guide: http://www.kphealthyme.com/Healthy-E...ased-Diet.aspx

Again, I am not claiming that minimally-processed, carbohydrate-rich, plant-based diets are superior to LCHF diets. I have posted peer-reviewed studies which show that both dietary approaches can be effective for controlling type 2 diabetes, that is all.

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Last edited by Runnerguy; 06-07-2019 at 03:15.
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Old 06-07-2019, 04:35   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runnerguy View Post
It does seem irrational that dietitians would recommend certain high-carbohydrate foods as part of the treatment for type 2 diabetes, but peer-reviewed case studies and dietary-intervention studies show that it actually can work.

Kaiser Permanente (the largest health insurance company in the United States) published this case study of a 63 year old man who greatly reduced his diabetes severity by (1) drastically reducing consumption of processed carbohydrates, (2) increasing his consumption of beans/legumes (which are rich in carbohydrates, but also rich in fiber), (3) increasing his intake of nuts (which are rich in unsaturated fat) and (4) greatly reducing his consumption of animal products (which are generally high in saturated fat) : Nutritional Update for Physicians: Plant-Based Diets

This comparison of low-carbohydrate vs. Mediterranean diets showed that both were effective dietary approaches to type 2 diabetes management: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23364002
. The Mediterranean diet includes minimally-processed carbohydrate-rich foods like beans and whole grains: https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-l...t/art-20047801

In this dietary intervention for type 2 diabetes, 11 of the 20 participants were able to discontinue their insulin therapy after only 16 days on a high-carbohydrate, high fiber diet: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/495550


I'm not claiming that a high-fiber, high-carbohydrate diet is more effective than a high-fat, low-carbohydrate diet in treating type 2 diabetes, because there is sufficient peer-reviewed evidence to show that HFLC diets are also effective. I am just presenting peer-reviewed studies which show that a low-fat, high-unprocessed-carbohydrate diet can be another effective option for controlling type 2 diabetes.

.
I see a story with no data that is nothing more than a promotion for the plant based diet that is formatted to look like a study for the 63 year old man.

Do you have links to the studies you do post, I'd like to see what they drew their conclusions from, especially the 23 day study. It sounds a little like a study showing that 4 days on a keto diet proving athletic performance is lost if you eat keto.

I see no mention of high fat, just low carb in the first study. Why do you reckon they won't do studies of low carb high fat?

Can we figure out the diets of the researchers and peer reviewers? If "Dr" Barnard is a "peer", then I'm starting to see ducks. I'm not saying they are all quacks, but I certainly would suspect their means and methods. I bought Barnard's book Reversing Diabetes after the ADA recommended diet failed to lower my BG, it too was a major failure on lowering my BG (I must not have used the magic beans and magic oatmeal or maybe I just should have not tested my BG.)

I'm not knocking a plant based diet, just saying if anybody tries it, make sure you keep testing your BG.

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Think I've had this since 2003. Told I was Type 2 lean on 2/13/12.
a1c 8.8 (8/2011) 5.4 (10/2018)
TC 206 LDL 102 HDL 85 TG 96 (10/2018)
Supplemental vitamins and electrolytes
63 YY Love the LCHF diet. The cheese goes well with my whine

updated 10/26/18

Last edited by mbuster; 06-07-2019 at 04:38.
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Old 06-07-2019, 05:17   #8
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I see a story with no data that is nothing more than a promotion for the plant based diet that is formatted to look like a study for the 63 year old man.

Do you have links to the studies you do post, I'd like to see what they drew their conclusions from, especially the 23 day study. It sounds a little like a study showing that 4 days on a keto diet proving athletic performance is lost if you eat keto.

I see no mention of high fat, just low carb in the first study. Why do you reckon they won't do studies of low carb high fat?

Can we figure out the diets of the researchers and peer reviewers? If "Dr" Barnard is a "peer", then I'm starting to see ducks. I'm not saying they are all quacks, but I certainly would suspect their means and methods. I bought Barnard's book Reversing Diabetes after the ADA recommended diet failed to lower my BG, it too was a major failure on lowering my BG (I must not have used the magic beans and magic oatmeal or maybe I just should have not tested my BG.)

I'm not knocking a plant based diet, just saying if anybody tries it, make sure you keep testing your BG.

Your criticism of the Kaiser Permanente cited case-study sounds like a matter of personal opinion.

I wish I could provide links to the full-text of all of these studies (instead of just the abstracts), but some of the studies are pay-per-view.

They have done studies of low-carb high-fat meals on blood sugar control. Here is one such study - it showed good results: https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/articl...5/1302/5435774

Please - let's stay objective here (your "magic beans" and "magic oatmeal" comments). We are here to post evidence-based information.

.


Last edited by Runnerguy; 06-07-2019 at 05:29.
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Old 06-07-2019, 13:40   #9
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@Runnerguy

Do you follow a plant-based diet for your diabetes? How is that working for YOU? What does your diet consist of, and can you tell us what your BG levels are after eating?

One of the great things about this forum is learning of other people's experiences. And that collective experience shows good results with LCHF, or just lowering carbohydrates. Maybe some people can do well (keep BG low and stable) on a plant-based way of eating, but I know from my own experience in testing foods, that it will not work for me.

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