LCHF vs VEGAN

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LCHF vs VEGAN


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Old 06-18-2019, 23:32   #1
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Default LCHF vs VEGAN

I have had very good results with LCHF for about 2 years now. Lowering my A1C from 8.3 to 5.4, but recently I have had a discussion with a vegan who says she has been treating type 2 with vegan low fat and that it has reversed her insulin resistance. I find this very interesting, because even though my blood sugar is very good, I'm still as insulin resistant as I have ever been. If I eat a high carb meal my blood sugar will be high for hours. Can it possibly be true that the fat we are eating is actually keeping us insulin resistant? I find this hard to believe, but unless she, and others, are lying about there results, it's make me wonder.

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Old 06-18-2019, 23:44   #2
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Everyone's diabetes is different. In some people, insulin resistance may be the issue. In others, it may be poor regulation of the insulin response. Or it may be some combination of that or other factors. If it works for her, great! If it works for you, that's good, too. I'd be interested to learn what she's eating as far as net carbohydrate levels from vegetable sources and what she's eating for protein since so many sources of protein are not vegan. Right now I'd say the answer to the question is d) not enough information at this time.

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Old 06-19-2019, 03:36   #3
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She claims she is eating mostly potatoes and rice with a mixture of other vegetables. Not sure where the protein is coming from, but it's diffently a very high carb diet. The theory is that the lack of fat actually reverses the insulin resistance. If this is true, which I doubt, it would be a game changer for diabetes treatment. What would you say to someone who tells you your treating our diabetes all wrong and should actually be eating the opposite diet?

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Old 06-19-2019, 03:47   #4
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What would you say to someone who tells you your treating our diabetes all wrong and should actually be eating the opposite diet?
I would say that diabetes is different in every one who has it and that I am eating in a way that helps me manage my blood glucose in a manner I can sustain. Then I move on.

There are studies both sides can deploy in supporting their points of view. In my experience most studies have some limitation or flaw that makes their results useful but not universal. Each study simply provides additional information we can use to better understand the role of nutrition for our bodies and on which we can build the next study.

Off the top of my head, if my diabetic body has trouble managing insulin in response to carbohydrate intake at any level, eating larger quantities of carbohydrates does not seem like a reasonable response. I'd have to see some really convincing research before I changed that thought.

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Old 06-19-2019, 17:42   #5
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There are all kinds of reported studies and blogs, and books in support for plant-based diet (even low-fat) for diabetics. What I haven't seen is people who adopt this WOE reporting their real experience (in a format such as this forum and other diabetes forums) such as BG levels 1hr and 2hr after eating, and their A1Cs over a period of time. I did run across a vegan blog that seemed realistic about just how much work it takes to do this but even they recommended a fair amount of fats.


Personally, I don't see how a plant-based WOE can be at all helpful for diabetics.

As far as fats causing insulin resistance, this seems to be a current theory (mostly promoted by oponents of Low Carb). But is there really any basis for this claim? I'm insulin resistant. But I didn't get into this state by eating fats. It happened because of high carbs and low-fat WOE. (Why in the world would I want to return to the very WOE that caused IR in the first place????) When I eat LCHF, I'm bypassing the insulin resistance by allowing my cells to metabolize and use fats. It doesn't "cure" IR, just makes it irrelevant. It seems to me to be an unrealistic expectation that any diet can reverse IR. And that any diabetic can return to eating carbs.

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Old 06-19-2019, 18:13   #6
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I have not seen anything that supports that eating fats can actually "keeping us insulin resistant"! But, as others have pointed out, we all are different in many ways.

Anyone going Vegan, that is not eating Protein is likely to end up in the hospital. If this is what your friend is doing.

I worked with a young guy who was real good athlete, in top shape. He decided to go Vegan. He ended up in the hospital in critical condition. He eventually got better, but went through a lot, while learning to eat protein going forward! So be very careful to do your homework if you try something like this...

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Old 07-13-2019, 07:35   #7
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Good question Steven. This was also in my head as I also see quite a nr of success stories on HCLF diets.
The replies from Steve and Vee-Jay are however top class, thank you, and help to convince me to not lose faith in my keto'ish diet.

Only thing that bugs me is my lack of energy on HFLC diet.. guess I just will have to do better with salt.. I don't know

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Old 07-13-2019, 16:11   #8
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Only thing that bugs me is my lack of energy on HFLC diet.. guess I just will have to do better with salt.
Salt (table salt, that is) is just one of the minerals that many people increase when eating keto. Magnesium and potassium also are critical for proper electrolyte function.

Regular levels of carbohydrate intake helps the body retain water and, in turn, helps the body retain sodium, magnesium, and potassium. When carbohydrate intake is reduced by a large percentage, less fluid is retained and those minerals are flushed out of the body. So many people eating LCHF/keto bump up their intake of all three.

The keto group on reddit insists people take in grams of each mineral per day, which, tbh, I find excessive, especially since they don't tend to account for peoples' sensitivity to any of those minerals or interaction with other medical conditions or medications. That on-line forum is, imho, fairly knowledgeable and supportive, but on this I differ with them.

For example, people taking ACE-inhibitor blood pressure medications are advised against taking in very high levels of potassium. Now, I'm certain that that recommendation was built on the assumption of the person eating "normal" amounts of carbs (that ol' USDA "balanced diet"). As people eating differently, though, it's up to us to either discuss with our health-care professionals and/or do our own research to determine increased levels of all three minerals which might be helpful for our own bodies.

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Old 07-13-2019, 20:06   #9
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Another thought. When one is doing low carb, but not low enough with enough fat intake to maintain ketosis, one can go in and out of ketosis. This can prevent one from reaching a fully ketoadaptive state (which can take a few or more weeks). So one isn't getting enough energy foods - too low carbs to get much from them, but not yet efficient at using fats for energy. I'm afraid I fall into this category most of the time with the resultant persistent fatigue. (I really must get off the fence!!!).

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Old 07-13-2019, 22:26   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenC View Post
I have had very good results with LCHF for about 2 years now. Lowering my A1C from 8.3 to 5.4, but recently I have had a discussion with a vegan who says she has been treating type 2 with vegan low fat and that it has reversed her insulin resistance. I find this very interesting, because even though my blood sugar is very good, I'm still as insulin resistant as I have ever been. If I eat a high carb meal my blood sugar will be high for hours. Can it possibly be true that the fat we are eating is actually keeping us insulin resistant? I find this hard to believe, but unless she, and others, are lying about there results, it's make me wonder.
Is your goal good nutrition and optimal health or to be able to eat a high-carb meal? That answers your question. Properly done keto appears to reverse insulin resistance over time (see Virta's results for 2 years), but even if it didn't and way before that, it renders it IRRELEVANT and of no consequences to health or well-being - unless of course one is still fixated on the "high-carb meal". For most, even well-formulated LC/HF short of keto can also accomplish that.

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