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Old 11-06-2013, 00:03   #21
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Default smorgan

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Originally Posted by smorgan View Post
OK, I needed that keyword "glycated insulin" so I could search some of this. It looks like that will help. I have one problem here, though. You say that insulin can't pass from the capillaries to cell space until it is glycated, so apparently by rubbing on an area on your thigh it goes directly to that space without having to exit from capillaries to get there. Here's a problem: it can't simply spread from there to the rest of the body. It would have to enter circulation to be carried elsewhere. Now, we're back to the original problem. It can't pass through the capillary wall in the OTHER direction (IN) in order to go elsewhere unless glycated. So, except for that small area on the thigh, the rest of the body's cells will also be deprived on non-glycated insulin, right?
You are very convincing which leaves me with the problem of the answer for me was right but the solution to the problem was wrong! Sh*t happens

when my mind is stuck I play

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Old 11-06-2013, 08:04   #22
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I may be taking a simplistic view on this ( perhaps due to insomnia and brain fog at the moment ) but this seems to have some correlation to the instructions I given when I was taking insulin. I was told not to rub the area I had just injected as it would cause the insulin to work faster, causing a more rapid decrease in BG then calculating for, and to not last as long as it should. I was told that it was worse doing that with a bolus insulin as the drop, which normally could take up to an hour, could be as fast as 15 minutes and result in severe hypo episodes. At the time I thought it was do to either forcing the insulin into the blood stream rather than allowing it to "seep" or by increasing the surface area available for transfer into the blood stream.

Maybe I wasn't too far off? I may have had the "how" but not the "why".

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Old 11-06-2013, 09:54   #23
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Don't take boron, but I get my water straight from a well - no fluoridation.

Nevertheless, I freely admit to brain fog or perhaps mere cognitive decline.

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Old 11-06-2013, 13:44   #24
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In my original post I stated: "Tread carefully my friend, because if your pancreas insists on pumping out too much insulin, you may find that diabetes type two is actually a cure for your condition. " I am finding that this is especially true for me, my pancreas hurts because it is trying to keep my blood sugar at about 85 mg/dL and my body insists on a minimum of 105 mg/dL. In my case a low ISF is the "cure" for my situation. Finding a way to reset my body/liver set point is the only way I see to help my situation.

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ColaJim, Age 73
Type 2 (very advanced Metabolic Syndrome ) for about 15 years but "insulin/oxygen resistant" for about 40 years
HbA1c 6.4 October 2014


now taking:

Novolog as required
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'Guessing is a scientific method" ~ Richard Feynman

I am not your librarian! Do your own research!. ~ ColaJim

Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm. ~ Winston Churchill
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Old 11-06-2013, 15:09   #25
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Interesting discussion, but none of it really fits with my approach. I don't want more insulin or more insulin sensitivity or more glucose processed. My "cure" is to have much less of all of those.

Ketogenic eating INCREASES insulin resistance and that's by design (and not pathological). Cells (most of them - 95%) wean off glucose and derive ATP from other things. I don't want them calling for or getting glucose. The need for insulin drops like a stone - hopefully well within the remaining capacity of the pancreas.

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Old 11-06-2013, 15:57   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColaJim View Post
In my original post I stated: "Tread carefully my friend, because if your pancreas insists on pumping out too much insulin, you may find that diabetes type two is actually a cure for your condition. " I am finding that this is especially true for me, my pancreas hurts because it is trying to keep my blood sugar at about 85 mg/dL and my body insists on a minimum of 105 mg/dL. In my case a low ISF is the "cure" for my situation. Finding a way to reset my body/liver set point is the only way I see to help my situation.
I thought that by going to an endo, I would be able to learn exactly what was going on in me. He initially said he wasn't sure I was diabetic, even with a 166 BG in his office 3 hours after breakfast, until I told him I had an 8.8 A1c. His nurse said he wants non-fasting testing so he could see what was going on. So much for that theory. No mention of further testing when I asked about what could be going on.

Interesting you could determine what your systems setpoints are. Do we know if there is a master controller that should be telling these two systems (liver and pancreas) to shoot for a similar BG target? There should be some synchronization betwixt the two and there may be, but it can't dealt with due to IR.

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Old 11-06-2013, 18:15   #27
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Quote:
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Interesting you could determine what your systems setpoints are. Do we know if there is a master controller that should be telling these two systems (liver and pancreas) to shoot for a similar BG target? There should be some synchronization betwixt the two and there may be, but it can't dealt with due to IR.
Just T2:

When one is on basal/bolus insulin you learn. With one's initial basal, is the first unit of correction (bolus insulin) more effective or less effective than larger doses per unit insulin. With the pancreatic set point you can guess 83 to 87 mg/dl until you can make a finer judgement. Oversimplified but mostly true.


.

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ColaJim, Age 73
Type 2 (very advanced Metabolic Syndrome ) for about 15 years but "insulin/oxygen resistant" for about 40 years
HbA1c 6.4 October 2014


now taking:

Novolog as required
.
'Guessing is a scientific method" ~ Richard Feynman

I am not your librarian! Do your own research!. ~ ColaJim

Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm. ~ Winston Churchill
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Old 11-09-2013, 19:18   #28
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Default testing glucose response

testing glucose response:


No basal insulin (36 units per day normally) for 5 days

No bolus insulin for over 24 hours

these figures are highly inaccurate

07:44 woke up, slept 4 hours

07:49 coke zero, 6 oz

07:52 109a

09:02 coffee w/ sucrose, ribose, magnesium 1

09:07 125a

09:10 Kroger pork & beans, total carbs 98, net carbs 77
22 x 3.5 = 77gc, 385 + 125 = 510 mg/dl

10:10 212a

10:40 218a, 512 - 218 = 294, / 60 = 4.9 units insulin used

11:10 200a

11:40 179a

12:10 150a, 29 x 2 = 58 mg/dl/hr, / 60 = 1u/hr (phase 2 insulin)

12:30 150a

12:50 123a, 179 - 123 = 56, / 1.1 = 51, / 60 = 0.85u/hr

conclusion: my pancreas can generate about 0.85 units of
insulin per hour and store up to 3.5 units total.
rather fuzzy logic I know but it is better than nothing

my sugar used to go to 370 mg/dl peak

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Type 2 (very advanced Metabolic Syndrome ) for about 15 years but "insulin/oxygen resistant" for about 40 years
HbA1c 6.4 October 2014


now taking:

Novolog as required
.
'Guessing is a scientific method" ~ Richard Feynman

I am not your librarian! Do your own research!. ~ ColaJim

Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm. ~ Winston Churchill
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Old 11-09-2013, 22:49   #29
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You lost me with your math!!! I don't get where some of your numbers are coming from.

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Old 11-09-2013, 23:45   #30
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You lost me with your math!!! I don't get where some of your numbers are coming from.

I was using 5 mg/dl per gram carb

the "60" is mg/dl per unit insulin that I estimated earlier

the "," is a math pipe(carry result forward) often symbolized by "|" in linux bash

"a" means accu-check aviva

the math was really meant for my personal weird use

"Do we know if there is a master controller that should be telling these two systems (liver and pancreas) to shoot for a similar BG target?"

I think for us the predominating glands usually are our overstressed adrenals boosting sugar levels

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Type 2 (very advanced Metabolic Syndrome ) for about 15 years but "insulin/oxygen resistant" for about 40 years
HbA1c 6.4 October 2014


now taking:

Novolog as required
.
'Guessing is a scientific method" ~ Richard Feynman

I am not your librarian! Do your own research!. ~ ColaJim

Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm. ~ Winston Churchill
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