Do You Have Diabetic Evny ?!?!? - Page 2

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Do You Have Diabetic Evny ?!?!? - Page 2

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Old 07-07-2010, 05:55   #11
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I agree with Breeze. And I think we need to know more about you, psdaengr - since you seem to know so much about us, and how we neglect and abuse ourselves. Tell us your own numbers and your history.

You've been here awhile - making sweeping statements and generalizations. Be specific now. Tell us about how you manage your own diabetes, if you have it.

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Old 07-07-2010, 08:41   #12
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Originally Posted by breezeonby View Post
I have T2 diabetes and take both insulin and oral medications. My pancreas does not function properly. I don't consider myself a junkie. Not taking any medication would certainly send me to an early grave. Do you have diabetes? If so, T1 or T2? Having T2 diabetes is not something to be ashamed of and it is a real medical condition. It is not merely an issue of neglect to ones body.
Yes, I have diabetes (read on for numbers). Pity isn't a form of empathy and sorrow, not a belittling. I don't think that having any disease or condition should be a cause for feeling shame or embarrassment. I feel sorrow for anyone who uses a therapy that isn't as effective as possible, because I've been there..

What I said was,

"No, when I see people who have type 2, I feel pity, not envy, because so few of them are managing any aspect of their health well.

I also feel anger, because in most cases, what is called type 2 diabetes is a predictable and reversible consequence of an unhealthy lifestyle."

As many as 90% of the people who are categorized as having type 2 diabetes have nothing wrong with their insulin production - either its quality or its quantity; it's the rest of their bodies that are out of control. They have outgrown their pancreases, causing pancreatic overload, a complication of obesity. Rather than identifying this as a separate disorder, the definition of type 2 diabetes has been *******ized to include them.

By lumping them in with those who have insulin resistance or improper alpha or beta cell response to blood glucose levels which is true type 2 diabetes, they make life harder for those who have true type 2 diabetes, those who have normal body weight and abnormal insulin production or regulation.

If you are one of those few, I feel pity for you, not because you have a disease, but because you get the fallout of guilt by association from their behavior as well as the consequences of doctors trying to treat diseases that they don't understand using chemicals that they don't understand.

People with impaired beta cell function get treated the same as those with overloaded beta cells using chemicals to force the cells to produce more insulin. In either case the result is the same, the beta cells get burned out. This is in contrast with insulin replacement therapy which addresses the shortage. The two approaches are like pumping an oil well dry vs changing to a new source. The more rational approach is shunned because of the supposed "pain" of changing behavior.

I have diabetes also, as did my father and his mother. I was fortunate that my beta cells failed rapidly and dramatically, instead of gradually like my dad and grandma. I say fortunate, because their doctors persisted in trying to treat them with oral medications until their beta cells totally failed. Once this happened and their diabetes was treated with insulin alone, their glucose management improved, but the damage was done. Both of them were blind, had impaired mobility, and died prematurely.

I can forgive this ignorance of fifty years ago, as I can the ignorance of 30+ years ago when I developed overt symptoms. It may seem incredible to you, but I had to argue with my doctors about using a home glucose meter when they became available, pay for one out of my own pocket, convince them to use those results and convince them that I had to self-manage blood glucose though insulin dosage modification. I had to battle with my doctors and my insurance companies every step of the way, convincing them that NPH once a day wasn't adequate, MDI of basal and rapid insulins was needed.

Over a period of 30 years I was I was gradually able to find a team of doctors who would listen, look at the same research and clinical trials that I'd been watching and work with me. Though I've experienced setbacks and complications, my self-management has steadily improved. My A1Cs for the last couple years have been in the high 5's. My total cholesterol is under 10, my BP is 110/65, my weight is average for my height.

My frustration with with the treatment of type 2 diabetes is that I know that BG can be well managed using MDI insulin alone. All the research shows that the use of Metformin and other oral drugs doesn't stop the progression of type 2 diabetes, doesn't improve long term outcomes vs insulin replacement therapy alone, and that remaining beta cell function can be preserved if insulin replacement therapy is used instead of drug-stressing the beta cell activity.

Rapid strides are being made toward the development of an artificial pancreas, and an understanding of the antibody process underlying diabetes. So why would any sane person chose a blood glucose management protocol that further damages the insulin production capacity of their panaceas, when a safer and more effective protocol exists that also protect their remaining beta cells?

Traditional medicine isn't science, it's mechanics practiced by well-meaning people who don't understand how the machine or the medicines work. Medications like Metformin are the product of a medical community that deals with symptoms, using the side effects of chemicals to counter these symptoms, without understanding the underlying mechanisms of disease. The majority of medicines in use, including Metformin are the biological equivalent of pouring Motor Honey into a malfunctioning engine. Ignoring the other side effects and consequences of these chemicals may have been the lesser of two evils in the past, but science, not medicine is now driving progress toward the cure for diabetes.

Within a very few years the old labels of type 1, type 2, adult onset and juvenile diabetes will be supplanted by scientific disease names that relate to the causes and underlying mechanisms of each of the many different diseases that have been lumped together under the dark ages name "diabetes". Until medicine is replaced by science, we who have these diseases will have to contend with the Motor Honey mechanics and cutters who call themselves doctors.

Last edited by psdaengr; 07-07-2010 at 08:50.
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Old 07-07-2010, 10:18   #13
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<climbs onto soapbox>

I can understand your frustration with the treatment of T2 diabetes. Myself, I have thought for years that many of us are mismanaged from the beginnings of our diagnosis. Personally, its my belief that many T2's would benefit from insulin therapy at a much earlier stage than many of us are. I absolutely believe that if I had started insulin therapy years ago instead of beating my pancreas to death with sulfonyureas I might actually have some beta cell function left. Do I have a some tangible proof of this? No...but it certainly makes sense to me.

I think where the issue some people might have with your earlier statement that the way it was worded made it seem as though you thought T2 diabetics are that way because of an unhealthy lifestyle that could be changed if they chose to do so...compared to a T1 that has no choice.

I am not sure that is what you meant to come across...but to me...thats what it seemed. In *my* opinion, neither T1 or T2 is *worse than the other. There is simply a different mechanism at work leading to the same result. In a T1 there beta cells are destroyed...they have no control over that. In a T2 they have a malfunction in the ability to use their insulin properly. Both conditions result in the same symptoms and same unfortunate complications. Treatment is both the same...and different...both have their own issues to deal with.
One thing they do share in common is that both types are caused by a genetic problem. Insulin resistance doesnt just happen because you ate too many cookies. I hope that as time goes by and more research goes into it, a solid scientific reason can explain exactly why it occurs. It is definitely genetic as evidenced by the fact that *most* of the time T2's run in families. I dont think it can purely be blamed on unhealthy lifestyle. If that were true every overweight person in the world would have diabetes. Many of us were within a so-called normal weight range when diagnosed (as I was).

Whatever your type is...the end result is the same. We are all in this battle together and can only strive to do the best we can to manage the hands we have been dealt.

<jumps off of soapbox and goes back to writing this stupid paper for school>

Type 2 since age 16
A1c in March 2010 12.6%
current A1c 6.3%

Currently taking:

Metformin 1000mg twice a day
Neurontin 300mg three times a day
Cymbalta 30mg a day
Symlin injections 60 mcg before meals
pumping with the minimed Revel and novalog
Milk Thistle twice a day
Fish oil twice a day
Nexium once a day
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Old 07-07-2010, 10:54   #14
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Originally Posted by psdaengr View Post
Yes, I have diabetes (read on for numbers). [edit]

I beg to differ, and differ strenuously. Metformin, unlike sulfonylureas and/or other oral medications, does absolutely NOT promote pancreas burnout & beta cell death. Metformin increases insulin sensitivity - period. It works to decrease insulin resistance, and it has worked for many years. It is affordable, which insulin is absolutely NOT, and you are going to need to provide better verification of these blanket statements. Of course, insulin is one of the best tools in the toolbox, and we all know the difference between type 1 and type 2 diabetes (and metformin is used for type 1 patients who develop insulin resistance). There are, however, many other combinations of treatment which assuredly do work, and many people on this forum are testimony to that fact.

In other news, the jury is still out on whether obesity causes diabetes or diabetes causes obesity, and the evidence supporting the latter thesis is accumulating rapidly.

I applaud your early insight into diabetes management, your life-long efforts and your success in controlling your diabetes (as well as controlling your medical team). But you are not the first or the only such astute patient. There will always be people who ignore their health and continue their bad eating habits, their smoking, their drinking, and plenty of other vices which contribute to the detriment of the human body. Those are not the people you find on this forum.

Despite your disclaimers ("so few" and "in most cases"), you are bashing type 2 diabetics here, and you are in error.

Last edited by Shanny; 07-07-2010 at 11:00.
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Old 07-07-2010, 20:54   #15
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Your words struck a chord with me. I have so many other health issues that diabetes has taken a back seat for the past several years. There is 1 good thing about diabetes and that is being able to take blood sugars. That give me a sense of control.
My migraines, sinus issues, back problems and my Multiple Sclerosis do not lend that sense of control.

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