Hi, I am new here and have a question

Go Back   The Diabetes Forum Support Community For Diabetics Online > Diabetes Forum Start Here > Diabetes Forum Lounge

Diabetes Forum Lounge The Diabetes Forum lounge is the more social area of the community. Please feel free to drop in, and discuss anything thatís on your mind. Use this area for off topic discussions, making friends and being social.


Like Tree19Likes

Hi, I am new here and have a question


Closed Thread
 
Shared Thread Thread Tools
Old 03-21-2014, 06:50   #1
Active Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 56

Member Type
Type Undiagnosed
Diagnosed in 2014

12 likes received
1 likes given
Default Hi, I am new here and have a question

I have two questions please. I have not been Dx with diabetes yet but an HBA1C test says I am pre-diabetic. Here are my questions. What do you think about healthy vegan diets advocated by doctors like Joel Fuhrman, John McDougall, and Neal Barnard. These experts say is is the fat in the diet that is chiefly responsible for Type 2 Diabetes and that it can be reversed by eliminating all animal products (meat and dairy). Refined carbs are not eaten either. What is eaten are non starchy vegetables like kale and collard greens, beans, vegetable salads, whole grains like oatmeal and brown rice. It is a healthy vegan diet, not the junk food ones. I began eating like this and I lowered my cholesterol to 120, down from 200 so a remarkable result. Here is my second question. Oatmeal (even steel cut oats) has been driving my blood sugars thru the roof and I have been eating it for a long time and did not realize this was probably happening. My fasting glucose is still 80 each morning but the oatmeal is causing these horrific spikes and it is taking way past 2 hours post meal for the levels to come back down. Can anyone offer me any advice please? Any thoughts on oatmeal? Seems like oatmeal causes these spikes in many, many ppl despite the fact that it is suppose to be good for you. Also, what are your thoughts on the three doctors I mentioned? Has anyone had any success following what these experts say? Should I just quit eating the oatmeal? Does anyone else here have problems with oatmeal? Thanks in advance for any advice or tips anyone can give me because I am worried about this. I feel some tingle in my legs and I am worried that things maybe going south despite the wonderful low cholesterol numbers.

Overdrive is offline  
Old 03-21-2014, 07:15   #2
Senior Member
 
Shalynne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Posts: 5,399

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 2011 (on insulin)

6972 likes received
5382 likes given
Default

Welcome to the Forum, Overdrive!

You'll find lots of info, support and the best kind of nosiness here!

Among us diabetics, it's the carbs that give us trouble, not meats and -- most definitely -- not fats. We do have vegetarian members who eat low-carb, high-fat ... but a vegan diet is very difficult for a diabetic to maintain while controlling their numbers. (I've looked for good examples of vegan diabetic control ... so far, haven't found any.)

Diabetes, by definition, involves carb intolerance. (That's why your oatmeal doesn't agree with you!) All of us cut carbs, and most of us increase good, healthy fats to replace those lost carbs.

Here are a couple of excellent links about diabetes and food:



Please read a lot, ask lots of questions and ... most of all ... please keep us posted!

Tamagno, kantim, Mary, and 1 others like this.
__________________
DX'd April Fool's Day, 2011 - T2
Female, 58, 5'7", 150 lbs.
A1C 13.5 -> 6.7 ->5.4 (1/31/14)
MEDS:
Humulin-N (basal) - Humalog (rapid bolus)
MAGIC POTIONS:
Biotin --10,000mcg (for hair health)
B-complex
One-A-Day Women's 50+ Advantage
KyoDophilus (pro-biotic)
LIFE SUPPORT:
Black Coffee - Unsweetened Iced Tea
Low-Carb, High-Fat Convert
Shalynne is offline  
Old 03-21-2014, 07:58   #3
Active Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 56

Member Type
Type Undiagnosed
Diagnosed in 2014

12 likes received
1 likes given
Default

Thanks Shalynne for replying. I do eat a little meat, just not much. That was driving my cholesterol up and my doctor wanted to put me on meds and I wanted to try and lower with diet. The healthy vegan diet did lower my total cholesterol to 120, better than even the drugs. My doctor was astounded. I eat no refined carbs now but I also eat very little meat either. I drink only water. I am gonna stop eating the oatmeal I suppose for awhile. Salads and green starchy vegetables seem to be ok but I have to get more calories in or you will starve. I am 5'10" at 150 lbs. so I don't need to drop anymore weight.

My BP is 110/65 so excellent also. If I go back to eating a lot of meat, I will drive my cholesterol numbers back up again to dangerous levels. This is a good website. Thanks for talking to me.

Overdrive is offline  
 
Old 03-21-2014, 08:18   #4
Senior Member
 
Shalynne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Posts: 5,399

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 2011 (on insulin)

6972 likes received
5382 likes given
Default

You might want to check out the second link I posted. It should give you more ideas on foods. You may want to add eggs, real butter, full-fat cheese and heavy whipping cream, for starters -- not vegan, I'm afraid, but all are definitely within ovo-lacto vegetarian parameters.

Starvation is not just A Bad Idea ... it's not an option.

You were most wise to refuse statins. Many of us on LCHF have found that our lipids have improved.

Tamagno likes this.
__________________
DX'd April Fool's Day, 2011 - T2
Female, 58, 5'7", 150 lbs.
A1C 13.5 -> 6.7 ->5.4 (1/31/14)
MEDS:
Humulin-N (basal) - Humalog (rapid bolus)
MAGIC POTIONS:
Biotin --10,000mcg (for hair health)
B-complex
One-A-Day Women's 50+ Advantage
KyoDophilus (pro-biotic)
LIFE SUPPORT:
Black Coffee - Unsweetened Iced Tea
Low-Carb, High-Fat Convert
Shalynne is offline  
Old 03-21-2014, 10:15   #5
Moderator
 
mbuster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: SW Arkansas
Posts: 9,205

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in Feb. 2012

11105 likes received
6345 likes given
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Overdrive
What do you think about healthy vegan diets advocated by doctors like Joel Fuhrman, John McDougall, and Neal Barnard. These experts say is is the fat in the diet that is chiefly responsible for Type 2 Diabetes and that it can be reversed by eliminating all animal products (meat and dairy). Refined carbs are not eaten either. What is eaten are non starchy vegetables like kale and collard greens, beans, vegetable salads, whole grains like oatmeal and brown rice. It is a healthy vegan diet, not the junk food.
I think these "experts" are are wrong and in my opinion a vegan diet is not healthy. If we were cows, horses, sheep or one of many other herbivores, maybe, but we're not. What logic have you found from these so called experts that justifies the dangerous spikes you are seeing. That alone should set off your 'snake oil' alert.

Not trying to slight you, I almost fell for that bunk too. I still have Barnard's book if you want to buy it. Check out his background. I'm guessing you found this forum because you aren't completely sold on their advice and are searching for approval/disapproval. Whatever the reason, welcome to the forum. Hope we can help sway away from the dark side.

iPhone using DF app

Shanny and Tamagno like this.
__________________
Think I've had this since 2003. Told I was Type 2 lean on 2/13/12.
a1c 8.8 (8/2011) 5.2 (07/2019)
TC 183 LDL 102 HDL 65 TG 52 (02/20/2020)
Supplemental vitamins and electrolytes
64 YY Love the LCHF diet. The cheese goes well with my whine

updated 02//20
mbuster is offline  
Old 03-21-2014, 11:33   #6
skb
Diabetic
 
skb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Mumbai, INDIA
Posts: 2,680

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 2007

4080 likes received
2435 likes given
Default

I'd second what mbuster said, in a nutshell - "Eat like a predator, not a prey".

Shanny likes this.
__________________
A1c ~ 5.4
Follow LC/HF diet since Aug 2010
Control only with diet/exercise. No meds.

Blog - Metabolically Challenged
skb is offline  
Old 03-21-2014, 13:55   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 1,288

Member Type
Type Pre
Diagnosed in 2005

1124 likes received
692 likes given
Default

Many diabetics had been eating the Joel Fuhrman, John McDougall, and Neal Barnard diet before diagnosis so no they don't make you diabetes free proof as they claim.

The best way know which diet is best for you to treat your diabetes is testing with your meter. If eating all does carbs produces lower glucose levels and insulin incursions then that will be the best. But you will find as many diabetics here in the forum and every where have found after test, test, test is that what help a diabetic is a low carb good fats diet not a low fat diet.

About cholesterol there are many post you can read to get a better idea of what is important and why. Like the TG/HDL ratio etc.

Shanny likes this.
kantim is offline  
Old 03-21-2014, 21:20   #8
Senior Member
 
silvertiger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Posts: 3,861

Member Type
Type Pre
Diagnosed in 2011

4282 likes received
5061 likes given
Default

It was probably reducing the carbs that lowered your cholesterol. There is much research out there that indicates you can eat LC/HF and lipid levels will be great. Mine are, and I've been eating LC/HF for years.

Oatmeal is really not good for BG. Any grain is pretty much something you need to avoid.

__________________

View silvertiger's full Diabetes Forum profile here.
silvertiger is offline  
Old 03-21-2014, 21:56   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 24,394

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 2009

23930 likes received
32255 likes given
Default

The doctors you mention are not experts, they are salesmen. We know Barnard's agenda - he is an animal rights advocate aligned with PETA, so he has no real interest in helping diabetics apart from picking their pockets. His PCRM is not a physicians council as he wants people to think, but is a well-subsidized animal rights group.

As for Fuhrman, he's a salesman too . . . Science-based Medicine has this to say about him: Joel Fuhrman

As for John McDougall (who of course has plenty of his own stuff - the better to pick your pocket), he is not only wrong, he is arrogant, rude and hateful, full stop. John McDougall Interview with Jimmy Moore.




Shalynne, Patdart, kantim and 1 others like this.
Shanny is offline  
Old 03-22-2014, 01:57   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: North Carolina USA
Posts: 846

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 2011

1059 likes received
639 likes given
Default

Welcome to the forum Overdrive.

__________________

View counsiler's full Diabetes Forum profile here.
counsiler is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


LEGAL NOTICE
By using this Website, you agree to abide by our Terms and Conditions (the "Terms"). This notice does not replace our Terms, which you must read in full as they contain important information. You must not post any defamatory, unlawful or undesirable content, or any content copied from a third party, on the Website. You must not copy material from the Website except in accordance with the Terms. This Website gives users an opportunity to share information only and is not intended to contain any advice which you should rely upon. It does not replace the need to take professional or other advice. We have no liability to you or any other person in respect of any content on this Website.


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:40.




Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.