High FBG Normal PP Levels

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High FBG Normal PP Levels


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Old 03-10-2015, 02:11   #1
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Default High FBG Normal PP Levels

I've complained about my FBG numbers and how it seems like no matter what I do, I can't make them better consistently. I've been eating LC or VLC and high fat for over a year now. I admit I have cheated a few times and somehow my reports of cheating have been branded on me like a scarlet letter. In reality, in the grand scheme they were actually very minor and should have not had much more of an effect for over an hour or so or at worst a half dozen FBL point increase for a day or may two max.

I did have a slim cut of birthday cake and a Tbsp of ice cream on my Mother's birthday in Nov last year, also same month a 30g carb treat on wife's Bday, a Tbsp of mashed potatoes and Tbsp of bread stuffing on Thanksgiving, never mind the no sugar almond crust pumpkin pie I made. I did also have a couple of thin crust pieces of pizza when family came to visit from out of town.

Other than those cheats, I've been pretty much VLC to LC and HF since Dec '13. For the first few months I thought I was under control, only to find my meter lying and reporting 20-30 point readings under actual, verified by comparing to lab results and a true A1c.

So, in all the testing I've done I think the highest I've ever witnessed has been a 170 something an hour or two after eating a high carb load when experimenting before fully going LCHF. I don't remember seeing a 140 or over PP except maybe 2-3 times when eating a somewhat higher carb than normal food for me while still keeping LCHF and keto.

So, day off today and I did some experimenting. My highest BG of the day was fasting at 119.

After a BPC a while later before breakfast it was 103, had a lot of sugar (?) cured bacon and 1 egg.

I started testing 1/2 hr PP several times to over 3 hours PP, each test was exactly 103 and a final 106.

2 1/2 hrs later I had lunch out at a buffet with my wife. I tested 1hr 40 min PP at 104, 3 hr PP at 103

So aside from my daily high FBL of 119, I've been pretty even keel all day long, nearly 12 hours of 103 with a rather short duration rise of 106 and 104 several hours PP.

This brings me to wonder if I'm a member of this exclusive club I read about on BS101?

http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/14046621.php

A Different Syndrome: Impaired Fasting Glucose with Normal Post-Meal Control

There is are a small number of people, often men, whose fasting blood sugar rises quite high, perhaps even into the diabetic range, while their post meal blood sugars remain normal or neal normal. This appears to be a slightly different syndrome. Scientists speculate, that these people may have a defect that affects their ability to secrete the basal insulin release that takes place during fasting and sleep.

Any of the experts familiar with this? It may explain a lot why I can't lower my FBG, and from my testing today, it appears I may not have a PP problem at all. As stated before over the last several months, I tested relentlessly early on and found what I can tolerate and stick to those foods, usually eating VLC.

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Feb '18 A1c 5.2
Feb '18 Lab Results
FBG
Chol 262
HDL 45
Trig 108
LDL 194
Insulin 4.7 (2.0-19.6)
11/15/17 30 Day FBG average 109


Male 68 157 lbs. 6'


Self diagnosed 11/'13, eating LCHF, Ketogenic. My Cardiologist is trying to help me manage my BG levels as I have no PCP

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Old 03-10-2015, 02:43   #2
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I think your numbers are heavenly.
Anytime I eat ANY carbs at ALL my BG goes up at least to around 140 and stays there for hours.
So as much as I can I TRY to be on a NO carbs diet (impossible, I know), just to survive until I can convince my doctor to prescribe insulin.

I hesitate to bring up the "cheating" at all, but want to remind you that FIRST time you eat carbs after being on LCHF, the liver stores glycogen (plus water) again, and high fasting levels may go up again until they are again depleted. It doesn't take much "cheating" to restore the stores. And it would be the night-time liver dump (Dawn Phenomenon) that would cause the higher fasting levels.

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Old 03-10-2015, 12:21   #3
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So, the theory would go:
  • Low overnight insulin release = FBG much higher than expected.
  • BPC stimulates either first or second phase insulin release bringing BG down to 103.
  • No BG significant rise after eating a VLC breakfast...but also no BG fall after eating (which I would expect since eating should stimulate another insulin release).
  • No pre-lunch BG recorded. Was lunch VLC or LC? PP numbers may indicate a BG rise or may indicate a kind of steady-state. Wish we had
that pre-lunch BG reading. It would be interesting.

I think I remember you are dealing with a medical professional who is willing to entertain new ideas and has a good capacity for listening and thinking. I suggest you make an appointment and bring in a log of foods/carbs/BG test levels/daily FBG.

I am still pushing for testing for type. Over the course of your struggles, I have wondered if you are LADA with sporadic insulin release.

I also wish, for all of us, that monitoring insulin levels was as straightforward as monitoring BG levels. (I know, I know, there is nothing straightforward about monitoring BG levels...save that is it a zillion times easier/more accurate than it was less than a lifetime ago.)

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wf, 63yo, 5'4", 110 lbs
LCHF diet-controlled T2
DXd myself with PP BG over 270
DX 12/13 with A1C 5.9
8/26/14 HbA1c 5.5
avg BG: 90 - 95 before meals, 100 - 110 one hour PP, 95 2 hours PP
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Old 03-10-2015, 12:40   #4
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I've read some of your posts about your FBG. And usually my thought about your higher FBG is that perhaps you need some basal insulin. Diet-control can only go so far and some need a little help. At some point VLC can diminish quality of life, and that's important for sustainability.

What you posted about the documented existence of those whose own basal insulin is impaired to the extent of not being able to handle the overnight needs is intriguing.

If it were me, I'd try out some basal insulin and see how it goes - especially if you have an open-minded doctor.

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Old 03-10-2015, 18:47   #5
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BigNick when is the last time you had your testosterone checked? Free test. is much more important than total. Be sure your aromatizing the test. into estrogen or have a high DHT levels. Testosterone will make all the difference in the world when it comes to PP and FBG.

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Old 03-10-2015, 19:05   #6
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Thank you three for your comments.

Miilanna, I know my numbers are good, relatively but I want them better. Heart disease or colon cancer will kill me before diabetes, but CAD and high glucose levels are very closely related.

Nancy, My 106 was actually 1.5 hrs before lunch not 2.5. I hadn't changed a clock to DST. My only Doc is a heart surgeon and cardiologist./ Yup he listens to me, has read reports I've given him and seems to agree with my management plan. He understands the relationship between high BS and heart disease but I don't think he is schooled in endocrinology, maybe a good thing? He has studied all my blood tests (4) over the last year and checked me out quite thoroughly and thinks I'm very healthy, heart and carotids sound very good. Even though my cholesterol is a bit high he has never mentioned that, I beat him to it and mentioned it's because of all the healthy animal fat I eat.

VeeJay, I'm taking a statin, beta blocker, ACE inhibitor, metformin, and an aspirin. My goal it ultimately get off all these. I don't want to add another drug unless it may be a matter of continuing to exist or not. I don't feel my highs as far as FBG are dangerous at this point. I'll focus on testing during the day and PP. I can eat LC or VLC the rest of my life if necessary, it's sustainable for me.

104 fasting today 7:40 AM
bacon and eggs, BPC 8:08 AM
93 PP at 52 min. 9:00 AM
103 PP at 90 min 9:38 AM
102 10:51 AM
Started chewing sugarless gum, 2g carbs 10:52 AM
112 1 hr 12 min of chewing gum 12:04 PM

As suspected, gum chewing raises my BG levels and I usually chew gum all day at work. Generally don't at home like yesterday when I was pretty even at 103.

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Feb '18 A1c 5.2
Feb '18 Lab Results
FBG
Chol 262
HDL 45
Trig 108
LDL 194
Insulin 4.7 (2.0-19.6)
11/15/17 30 Day FBG average 109


Male 68 157 lbs. 6'


Self diagnosed 11/'13, eating LCHF, Ketogenic. My Cardiologist is trying to help me manage my BG levels as I have no PCP
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Old 03-10-2015, 19:29   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCS View Post
BigNick when is the last time you had your testosterone checked? Free test. is much more important than total. Be sure your aromatizing the test. into estrogen or have a high DHT levels. Testosterone will make all the difference in the world when it comes to PP and FBG.
Never had it checked. If anything I've wondered at times if mine was way too high.

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Feb '18 A1c 5.2
Feb '18 Lab Results
FBG
Chol 262
HDL 45
Trig 108
LDL 194
Insulin 4.7 (2.0-19.6)
11/15/17 30 Day FBG average 109


Male 68 157 lbs. 6'


Self diagnosed 11/'13, eating LCHF, Ketogenic. My Cardiologist is trying to help me manage my BG levels as I have no PCP
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Old 03-11-2015, 00:40   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bignick View Post
Never had it checked. If anything I've wondered at times if mine was way too high.
Hang in there, age will solve that little problem for you.

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Old 03-11-2015, 14:52   #9
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I finished off the day yesterday pretty well. I had a lunch preprandial reading of 96, a 1 hr PP of 121, 2 hr 118, 3 hr 98, dinner pre 93, dinner pp 104.

So I found out yesterday by testing every hour my levels are not really bad. It seems my spikes are low, sugarless gum does raise me more than I like. Bacon and eggs nas very little effect, as does kielbasa and steamed veggies which was dinner.

My FBG seems to be the highest reading of my waking hours except some PP rises that diminish rather quickly. If possible I would like to bring this all down 10-15 points but I don't know if it is possible. I'll keep trying though.

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Feb '18 A1c 5.2
Feb '18 Lab Results
FBG
Chol 262
HDL 45
Trig 108
LDL 194
Insulin 4.7 (2.0-19.6)
11/15/17 30 Day FBG average 109


Male 68 157 lbs. 6'


Self diagnosed 11/'13, eating LCHF, Ketogenic. My Cardiologist is trying to help me manage my BG levels as I have no PCP
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Old 03-11-2015, 15:51   #10
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BigNick I would still get your testosterone checked.

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