ketones vs blood glucose

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ketones vs blood glucose


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Old 09-22-2015, 04:02   #1
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Default ketones vs blood glucose

I've had diabetes for at least 10 years, on metformin about 4. I've been eating LCHF since this spring, so about 6 months now. I've mostly kept under 140 mg/dL but have times when I get surprises. Like this morning my FBS was 113. then after nothing but black coffee and my morning meds I got a reading of 162! I had just had a shower and washed my hair and did a quick check before heading out to take a friend for an appointment. (not time to recheck) My hands had just been washed. I've also had some 130 to 150ish reading that seemed out of line with what i had eaten and my previous readings. I use ketosticks to check and have been spilling ketones since shortly after I started this way of eating. So now i am worried that if I am making ketones but my bg is higher than normal is there a risk of DKA?
Also is this something that would make one suspect LADA? Should I ask to be tested? How is it diagnosed?
I am getting numbers in the 80s usually in late afternoon and evening so I am obviously making some insulin. But my fasting numbers have not come down and earlier in the day have become rather stubborn. I've cut back on protein and my carbs are only from salad and greens cooked in fat (butter, coconut oil, bacon fat mostly) So I'm left wondering if my pancreas is failing and only producing sporadically.
What does everyone think?

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Old 09-22-2015, 04:28   #2
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I think you're getting higher readings because you aren't eating, so you get a liver dump. When all you take in the morning is your meds with some black coffee, your liver decides you might starve, so it converts some of its nice stored glycogen into glucose and drizzles it into your bloodstream for good measure. That's a liver dump.

So if you wake up with a nice fasting like 113, make sure you notify your liver that you're perfectly happy and not hungry, so no further measures are necessary. And the ONLY way you can notify your liver is to EAT SOMETHING. Meds don't count, and obviously black coffee doesn't count, so either have an ounce or two of cheese, or a handful of nuts (macadamias are good & fatty), or dump several ounces of HWC into that coffee. Anything low-carb and rich, so your liver knows without doubt that you don't need its help.

As for your other questions - all the worrying will raise your blood sugar too, y'know! And if you're worried about LADA, then go get tested for GAD autoimmune antibodies. If you test positive, then you're LADA. If not, you aren't. I kinda doubt if your pancreas is failing completely quite yet, since you're dropping into the 80s most days.

Another thought in passing is that you aren't eating much fat. Just cooking in it isn't quite enough - you really need to be EATING it. Have you looked into making fat bombs? Search our recipes & you'll find all kinds of sweet & savory bombs made with coconut oil, cream cheese & other goodies. And unless you just can't stomach anything but black coffee, go right ahead and add HWC to it as mentioned above. In fact, add HWC, coconut oil and butter all three. This is what we refer to as bullet proof coffee, and it makes up a lot of our fat quota early in the day. In one fell swoop, it gets us off to a stellar start with fats and fluids both - assuming the coffee mug holds at least 16oz.




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Old 09-22-2015, 04:59   #3
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I like HWC in iced coffee in the afternoon but really need my coffee black in the morning. I have bacon guacamole FBs in the freezer and had one for lunch today with romaine EVOO and ume plum vinegar. i also have lemon cream cheese FBs in the freezer. Maybe i should have one for breakfast. Occasionally I eat a couple if I get hungry later after dinner. Mostly I forget they are there. I am really foggy headed in the morning until I've had a few cups of black coffee.
Yeah I've been stressing about my knee replacement(s). Should i do both at once, what will I eat in hospital, can I get enough things done ahead for when I come home, trip home to see my parents, sibs, grown kid before the surgery in October, stuff like that. Also been migraining a lot so lots of reason for higher than I'd like numbers. Still it's frustrating to work so hard at it and not get the kinds of results I want which is normal blood sugar levels.
I've been using a lot of fat when I cook. It's fried actually and I drink any that is left in my bowl when I'm done. i'm making enough ketones to show on the sticks in the morning when they are lowest according to Jimmy Moore's Keto Clarity book.

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Old 09-22-2015, 07:27   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaJoie View Post
I am getting numbers in the 80s usually in late afternoon and evening so I am obviously making some insulin.
In which case DKA is not possible, so you can relax on that front. As far as your higher morning numbers are concerned, I'd agree with Shanny, that it's probably your liver playing its tricks.

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Old 09-22-2015, 13:54   #5
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I also get higher numbers after a shower...no idea why, it is what it is sometimes Don't stress too much about the knee replacements...I've had both replaced myself, 7 weeks apart. Most doctors won't do both at the same time, it's too hard on the doctors and the patients. I would schedule them both a couple of months apart but NOT trying to get them both replaced at the same time.

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Old 09-22-2015, 15:23   #6
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My ortho doc is retiring in December so doing them separately would mean getting to know a new doc. But that is what I've decided to do. My left knee has been bone-on-bone for at least 4 years (when I first saw him). The right could wait longer. I've decided to do just the left this time and see how much it helps. Yes I know I've got a pretty gruelling recovery ahead. I have fibromyalgia and several herniated disc in my back and neck, tendonitis and ? that give me considerable pain. My "better" knee sometimes fails (buckles) which is scary on stairs especially. But if doing one knee doesn't give me considerable relief after recovery time i may not do the other one unless it starts showing serious deformity. My Mom got hers done because her knee became so deformed her legs looked like the letter "K" from behind, when her feet were parallel. It's the anesthesia that really scares me.
My doc said last year I was young enough (65 now) that he would be willing to do both whenever I was "tired of having all this fun." But when I saw him last month to discuss it he said my right knee is showing some deformity but I probably could wait 3-4 more years.
After that one unexpected 162 yesterday my numbers were 106 before lunch, 104 at 1 hour PP, Forgot to check at 2 hours, but stayed under 100 the rest of the day. FBG this morning was 107. Best I've seen so far.
I think I've had some confusion about ketosis since reading Keto Clarity. They say to try to go 12-24 hours without eating and eat more at the meals (intermittent fasting). I'm guessing now that's great if you're doing it for weight loss specifically; but it hasn't been so great for eating-to-the-meter in my experience. So I'm getting back on track with the meter since controlling my blood sugar is my primary goal. Incidentally I've lost another pound so that's 26 since March. I'd love to get below 140 lbs. by the surgery (Oct 19th) but blood sugar control is the most important thing.

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Old 09-22-2015, 15:37   #7
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My bone broth spoiled when our fridge broke so I haven't had any for awhile. Finally got it fixed last week so for sure i will be making more. Meanwhile I have store-bought broth. If I get hungry at odd times I nuke a cup of it with added salt and a big chunk of butter. I am really trying to keep protein limited and fat up as that seemed to be a problem (too much protein). Other than that weird 162 yesterday my numbers do seem to have settled into more realistic ones based on what I eat. So having made the decision about my knee surgery and having gotten past the multiple days of migraines it does seem to have been the stress that was keeping me high. Wonder if I'll be able to do yoga again after the knee replacement.

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