Tight Control T2 not effective - Page 3

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Tight Control T2 not effective - Page 3


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Old 12-18-2011, 21:47   #21
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Don't tell me what the trials have done for you, just tell me what you were eating before you gave up red meat, bread & pasta. Where now do you get any protein in your diet? Thirty grams of carb five times a day is a sizable amount of carbs.

You have been insisting that tight control is not effective against complications - that you had good (tight?) control and still got serious complications. I'm just trying to figure out how you were eating 26 years' worth of bread, pasta, etc., and you still eat lots of fruit . . . totaling about 150g of carb per day. Why have not your scientific leanings told you that further reducing carbs might be acceptable management for your brittle diabetes?

Whoa, there is a miss understanding here. I have never been controlled. I swing up and have had many trips tothe ER with a sugar of 20-30, unconscioius. I never said I had controlled diabetes.
I used to eat whole grain bread, very little. Ate pasta about once a week. I ate pork and chicken onc or twice a week. Even as a child I was not much of a meat eater.
Now, I use can chicken in salads, hard bioled eggs, some cheese and some yogurt. Oh and nuts, almonds and walnuts have a good amount of protein, oh I get some peanut butter in also.
When I was working full time, I could not eat 5 small meals. And I could not check my sugar from 7:30 to 4:30 during the day. It was forbidden in the building. I was not allowed to leave the building.
Back them I made a blueberry smoothie for lunch most days. totalled 4 carbs.
Now my breakfast totals 8 carbs. I said I try not to eat more than 30 carbs at a time, I often eat much less than 30.

You are right my protein needs to come up, but, I feel so good. I will work the protein in.
The past is past, I did what I had to do as a single mother. Now is now, I am doing what I can to be a good grandmother.

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Old 12-18-2011, 22:01   #22
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. . .all the ADA recommended foods . . .
I know the old ADA exchange diet really well, since that's what my father followed (and it worked for him, thank goodness). I also know from the ADA website that they now endorse carb-counting, but they recommend starting at 45-60 grams of carb per meal and then going up or down "depending on how you manage your diabetes"(source). Does anyone know how low they "allow" you to go, i.e, at what level does a CDE go all red in the face and start yelling at you to Eat More Carbs!?

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Old 12-18-2011, 22:15   #23
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Whoa, there is a miss understanding here. I have never been controlled.
Oh - okay - sorry for the confusion. If you are not type 2 and you have never been controlled, I fail to see the significance for submitting this study regarding type 2 diabetics, and then defending it so strongly. We have many type 2 members who DO have tight control and some have avoided complications for many years.

As jwags and others have said - many of the studies analyzed for this report are based on flawed research.




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Old 12-19-2011, 00:57   #24
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[QUOTE=Shanny;68831]Oh - okay - sorry for the confusion. If you are not type 2 and you have never been controlled, I fail to see the significance for submitting this study regarding type 2 diabetics, and then defending it so strongly. We have many type 2 members who DO have tight control and some have avoided complications for many years.

I only submitted the study because months ago I was asked to.
By the way, where did you all get your PhDs? I got mine at Penn State University, and I am proud of it.
We all keep learning everyday.

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Old 12-19-2011, 09:34   #25
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@smorgan
Your point on the original extraction process is well taken - basically it's equivalent to the simple crushing extraction of raw cane sugar.
However, your qualifiers are the basis of my objection to sweeteners of all types.
Our chemist friends are too quick to provide "new improved versions" and when you dig a bit, the improvements are basically for their benefit - for example -
  • Cheaper to produce,
  • longer shelf life,
  • more addictive,
  • justifies a price increase....
So, I remain a "no sweet tooth man"

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Old 12-21-2011, 05:20   #26
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I've read a few times about tight control resulting in disaster. One study was cancelled early because the tight control group was dying off. The main point for me is that your kidneys last longer with good control.

When your sugars are high enough to spill into urine, that is really hard on the kidneys. Once they fail, things are grim.

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It's my understanding that a sweet taste (however created) triggers an insulin response which means that your pancreas gets a push every time.
I have a friend who thinks like that, and thinks that a diet soda can bring a person out of hypoglycemia. I explained that it can't, but don't think she believed me. There isn't any sugar in it, how can it raise your sugar levels? (It's just that one small point I don't agree with.)

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Whoa, there is a miss understanding here. I have never been controlled. I swing up and have had many trips tothe ER with a sugar of 20-30, unconscioius. I never said I had controlled diabetes.
I don't understand this. Are you unconscious because your bg went down to 20-30 mg/dl? Or because it went up to 20-30 mmol/L? How high can a person go before they pass out anyway?

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When I was working full time, I could not eat 5 small meals. And I could not check my sugar from 7:30 to 4:30 during the day. It was forbidden in the building. I was not allowed to leave the building.
I do all my checking and injecting in the bathroom. It can't possibly be forbidden, and if it is, I could care less. The injecting part is because one of the girls at work goes 'eek, a syringe,' which gets to me. She got upset one time when she saw me injecting for lunch. It gets to me because the syringe isn't being stuck in her.

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Originally Posted by John.in.France View Post
no sweet tooth
I just like the sound of that

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Old 12-21-2011, 08:32   #27
 
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By the way, where did you all get your PhDs?
From the school of experience, which in some cases is better than a 'paper' PhD.

You post a flawed study, then insult the intelligence of those who don't agree with it.

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Last edited by Gizmo; 12-21-2011 at 08:36.
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Old 12-21-2011, 09:39   #28
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John.in.France
It's my understanding that a sweet taste (however created) triggers an insulin response which means that your pancreas gets a push every time.
I have a friend who thinks like that, and thinks that a diet soda can bring a person out of hypoglycemia. I explained that it can't, but don't think she believed me. There isn't any sugar in it, how can it raise your sugar levels? (It's just that one small point I don't agree with.)
As I understand it, the sweet taste sends a signal to the pancreas "sugar on the way". If the pancreas can respond, it does. If there's not really any new sugar, the insulin hammers what it can find. That means you might go (mildly) hypo. The initial symptom of this is "I'm hungry - I better have some more" - The manufacture of the diet soda approves of this - it sells more of his product.

I certainly don't think that a diet soda will bring someone out of hypo - more likely it will push him further down. The only sensible thing for a real hypo is simple old fashioned glucose (in moderation).


Last edited by John.in.France; 12-21-2011 at 10:45.
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Old 12-21-2011, 10:25   #29
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From the school of experience, which in some cases is better than a 'paper' PhD.

You post a flawed study, then insult the intelligence of those who don't agree with it.
Joyce! Where you been? We've been missing you, Lady! I know, I know - it's only been a month, but . . . Welcome back!




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Old 12-21-2011, 16:18   #30
 
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Joyce! Where you been? We've been missing you, Lady! I know, I know - it's only been a month, but . . . Welcome back!
Well, the truth is I haven't been posting because a while back I embarrassed myself when I posted this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmo View Post
I read somewhere on the forum that if you are a type 2, you don't have to worry about your bg falling too low, because it won't, you only have to worry about highs.
After posting that, I found out some type 2's here at the forum do have hypos. Then I remembered that instead of the forum, I had read it at bloodsugar101, so I looked that up.... Link Here. She was talking about type 2's and she said, "If you are not injecting insulin or taking a sulfonylurea drug you do NOT have to worry about hypos."

Well, if I (and bloodsugar101) was wrong about that, then how much other misinformation was I giving out on the forum?! So I quit posting. But that PhD thing got to me and I couldn't let it pass. But now I'm thinking about going back to lurking.

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