Keto - snapback effect - Page 2

Go Back   The Diabetes Forum Support Community For Diabetics Online > Diabetes Forum Start Here > Diabetes Forum Lounge

Diabetes Forum Lounge The Diabetes Forum lounge is the more social area of the community. Please feel free to drop in, and discuss anything that’s on your mind. Use this area for off topic discussions, making friends and being social.


Like Tree14Likes

Keto - snapback effect - Page 2


Reply
 
Shared Thread Thread Tools
Old 10-07-2018, 03:37   #11
Moderator
 
mbuster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: SW Arkansas
Posts: 8,825

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in Feb. 2012

10814 likes received
5862 likes given
Default

Hearing facts never makes me angry, and I can only shake my head in disbelief when I hear misinformation spread based on opinion without evidence or disregard to contrary evidence, and I've heard lots from doctors.

I've had 2 kidney stones long before keto and only one since. Yes, people have been known to have kidney stones, as well as gout attacks, due to elevated uric acid. However the most common form of kidney stones are calcium, as was my kidney stone after being on LCHF for 6 years and probably the last 5 of those being more keto.

Keto does raise uric acid levels but it has been found to be temporary and returns to pre-keto levels in 6-12 weeks and falls below that in 4-6 months. My source for this is here. Keto is not the only thing that raises uric acid levels. Here is a link to some listed by Mayo Clinic.

Yes keto has worked well for me. If that's the big negative health issue, there are people with more and bigger issues that aren't on keto, so until there is evidence.......

To date, I've lost 70 pounds since diagnosis, going from an A1c of 8.8 to 5.3 and maintain controlled blood sugar levels below 140, usually lower than 100. I do take metformin, but feel my diet is more responsible for my control.

I do question your thinking that Dr. Fuhrman's diet is controlling your BG to normal levels. When did you start insulin if you don't mind my asking?

__________________
Think I've had this since 2003. Told I was Type 2 lean on 2/13/12.
a1c 8.8 (8/2011) 5.4 (10/2018)
TC 206 LDL 102 HDL 85 TG 96 (10/2018)
Supplemental vitamins and electrolytes
63 YY Love the LCHF diet. The cheese goes well with my whine

updated 10/26/18
mbuster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2018, 06:52   #12
Senior Member
 
xring's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 224

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 2008

191 likes received
19 likes given
Default

I started insulin a couple of years ago, after not needing anything other than diet & lifestyle changes for 7 years. Interestingly, after I lost weight, my BG went up enough to need insulin...contrary to the usual belief that losing weight lowers blood sugar or (as some doctors say) makes diabetes go away. I take 9 units before breakfast, no more until dinner. 9-10 units before dinner.

xring is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2018, 09:24   #13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: California, USA
Posts: 3,075

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 2009

4566 likes received
542 likes given
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbuster View Post
@smorgan, is there supposed to a specific article at your link?
The whole site I felt was valuable to the OP to dispel the nonsense he heard from his doctor. The clinical results and other science is probably the most interesting part and it's under the "Research" tab.

__________________
Salim Morgan, T2
66 Years
DX: 9/2009 A1C=10.7
A1C 2/2010: 6.7 (DX + 4 months)
A1C 5/2010: 6.0 (DX + 8 months)
A1C 8/2010: 5.7 (DX + 11 months)
A1C 11/2010: 5.1 (DX + 14 months)
A1C 9/2011: 5.6 (DX + 2 years)
A1C 7/2012: 5.5 (DX + 2 years 10 months)
A1C 1/2019: 5.5
Diet: Approximately C:10;P:15;F:75 (as % calories)
Exercise: Not much. Stairs at home & work.
NO MEDS, No Highs, No Lows
Grandkids: 22
smorgan is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Old 10-16-2018, 01:06   #14
Senior Member
 
Chaidragonfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: DFW, Tx
Posts: 283

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 2009

161 likes received
80 likes given
Default

Unfortunately for my keto questions, like my diabetes questions to all the Dr.s I've had.......I never get the same answer twice.

__________________
I'll wear black until something darker comes along.
Chaidragonfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2018, 03:44   #15
Senior Member
 
xring's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 224

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 2008

191 likes received
19 likes given
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaidragonfire View Post
Unfortunately for my keto questions, like my diabetes questions to all the Dr.s I've had.......I never get the same answer twice.
Chances are, you never will. I followed my doctor's advice about insulin for one week. She said to take 10 units before each meal. Well, after having dangerous lows (46 - 70), I stopped asking her any questions & followed my own insulin schedule. I know where I'd be if I continued doing what she said to do.
Ya know....doctors can repeat what they've read in books & it might work for some patients, but diabetes is different in everyone.
So is food. In my 20's, I sat at the same table with my thin friends, eating the same burgers, fries etc. They stayed thin & I was 100 lbs. overweight.

xring is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2018, 15:17   #16
Senior Member
 
NSDad126's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 595

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 2006

434 likes received
402 likes given
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaidragonfire View Post
Went to the Dr. today for my regular diabetes checkup. Things look "normal" as far as diabetes is concerned.

I told my Dr. about starting to eat keto foods and lost 15 pounds in two months, and then all of a sudden I gained it all back.

He explained that keto is basically starving your fat cells of one kind of carb, and if you ever "cheat" or get off the total keto program, then the fat cells will reabsorb all of the carbs you eat, that you have not been eating.

He said most people can't keep to the total keto program, so they may lose a lot of weight at first, but as soon as they "cheat" or switch off the program for a week or two, all those carbs will be soaked up like a sponge by the starved fat cells.

He also said some people's systems just don't acknowledge keto foods, and they end up feeling like they are being starved altogether or become really sluggish and lethargic. Even though keto food may be better for diabetics, not all diabetics can handle the change or their systems may stagnate and make them sick.

In my case, I got the snapback............I lost 15 pounds, then apparently my body just snapped back to the way it was. The Dr. said this is also common. Even if you keep on keto, your body just doesn't acknowledge it and you can still gain weight or gain what you lost back.

So........I give up on the keto. I will still eat some of the keto recipes, because I like them, but other than that......it's not worth the effort if I'm just going to lose some weight and then gain it all back again.


Chaidragonfire, it is too late for us, I already like you - LOL. So out of respect for you, I'm not going to come into your church ( this thread) and start preaching a different religion(keto).

I feel that anything that I write in favor of keto might imply that I disagree with your decision. So for now, I think it is important to respect that your health is important to you and you made a decision.

Best of wishes to you,

NSDAD

PS I feel your frustration, I've been there and continue to be there.

chargette and Chaidragonfire like this.
__________________
NSDad

http://www.fastingandketo.ca
NSDad126 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2018, 17:08   #17
Senior Member
 
Chaidragonfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: DFW, Tx
Posts: 283

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 2009

161 likes received
80 likes given
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NSDad126 View Post
Chaidragonfire, it is too late for us, I already like you - LOL. So out of respect for you, I'm not going to come into your church ( this thread) and start preaching a different religion(keto).

I feel that anything that I write in favor of keto might imply that I disagree with your decision. So for now, I think it is important to respect that your health is important to you and you made a decision.

Best of wishes to you,

NSDAD

PS I feel your frustration, I've been there and continue to be there.

LOL

You can preach it if you want too! I just have stopped trying.

I will eat some of the keto foods though, as they are really good, but if they work, fine........if not, I'm not going to worry about it.

I made some more keto soup for this week. It's finally getting cold here where I'm at, so I don't mind eating a lot of soup in the winter. Plus, with all the holidays coming up, I probably should just stick to the soup until the end of January to try and counteract all the other stuff I will be eating (but not supposed to)..........LOL


__________________
I'll wear black until something darker comes along.
Chaidragonfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2018, 11:13   #18
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: California, USA
Posts: 3,075

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 2009

4566 likes received
542 likes given
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xring View Post
IMO, people who like Keto are so focused on the lower blood sugar numbers & weight loss, they don't consider any possible negative health issues.
Actually, my main focus with keto is general health, lowering risk of Alzheimer's and all other nervous system disorders, maintaining mental clarity into old age, lower CVD risk and other issues. It also seems to have cured painful arthritis in one knee but I guess that could be some kind of coincidence.

Moving to and staying at ideal weight and restoring all-normal blood sugars from a starting point of 300/180/11.0 are well-received SIDE EFFECTS of going keto.

mbuster likes this.
__________________
Salim Morgan, T2
66 Years
DX: 9/2009 A1C=10.7
A1C 2/2010: 6.7 (DX + 4 months)
A1C 5/2010: 6.0 (DX + 8 months)
A1C 8/2010: 5.7 (DX + 11 months)
A1C 11/2010: 5.1 (DX + 14 months)
A1C 9/2011: 5.6 (DX + 2 years)
A1C 7/2012: 5.5 (DX + 2 years 10 months)
A1C 1/2019: 5.5
Diet: Approximately C:10;P:15;F:75 (as % calories)
Exercise: Not much. Stairs at home & work.
NO MEDS, No Highs, No Lows
Grandkids: 22
smorgan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2018, 01:16   #19
Senior Member
 
NSDad126's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 595

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 2006

434 likes received
402 likes given
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xring View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbuster View Post
You might want to reconsider your opinion. What would be the negative health issues of keto? What would be the negative health issues of high blood sugar and obesity? Put those answers in the pans of an equal arm balance (scales) Which pan do you think would slam to the ground?
I usually don't like to respond because it causes conflict & makes some people angry to hear that something they're doing and have faith in may be causing harm, but...
A guy in my diabetes support group also sang the praises of Keto & he lost around 20 lbs. At his first doctor visit, his doctor said his labs were fine & that the weight loss was good.
A few months later, his doctor raised hell at his labs & asked, "What the hell are you doing?" He explained the keto & his doctor said, to stop because "you're losing a few pounds & your blood sugar is lower...at the expense of your kidney function & you won't like life without kidneys." He also said he didn't like the "uric acid" level in his blood (whatever that is) & said if he suffered kidney stones, he'd never forget the experience.
He stopped the diet & gained back some of the weight. IMO, if he cut out the Cheerios & Diet Pepsi, he might lose weight.

Personally....I lost 85 lbs. 9 years ago & my A1c went from 9 (at diagnosis) to 6.0 with normal blood sugar by following Dr. Joel Fuhrman's "Eat to Live" program. It's basically increasing vegetables & limiting processed carbs and meat. Fruit - 3-4 servings/day but only raw, unpeeled & unprocessed.
I still follow it & haven't gained back any weight, so it works for me.
If Keto works for you, go for it.
I'm interested in the side note about uric acid. what does it come from, red meats or protien? I don't think that I'm eating more of either with my keto way of eating. I don't see keto as an excuse to eat too much of anything including protien.

__________________
NSDad

http://www.fastingandketo.ca
NSDad126 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2018, 05:50   #20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: California, USA
Posts: 3,075

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 2009

4566 likes received
542 likes given
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NSDad126 View Post
I'm interested in the side note about uric acid. what does it come from, red meats or protien? I don't think that I'm eating more of either with my keto way of eating. I don't see keto as an excuse to eat too much of anything including protien.
Yes, it is virtually certain that the person mentioned was not doing keto properly. It seems he was eating too much lean red meat, a VERY common mistake people make on keto. Unfortunately, there are only a handful of doctors world-wide who will help - or even cooperate - with anyone attempting keto, so people are left on their own. Lots of mistakes are made which are then erroneously blamed on "keto".

Keto does NOT cause any harm to kidney function - or any other function that we know of. The best trial to date is probably the one from Virta. So far, it is over 250 people plus a control group on standard treatment as doled out by doctors today. Hopefully, there are another four years of data coming. The results speak for themselves. Note that patients self-monitored and self-reported, so this was probably not perfect, either, but with constant feedback no doubt much better than our random internet posters who bummed on keto.

Clinical Outcomes

Safety
A common concern in the treatment of type 2 diabetes is hypoglycemia. In our clinical trial, no hypoglycemic events requiring assistance were reported. Additionally, treatment at Virta resulted in neutral or positive effects on markers of kidney and liver function.



While there a tiny dis-improvement in uric acid, serum creatinine a measure of kidney function improved more on keto than on the traditional (low-fat, calorie, etc.) treatment. Liver function was GREATLY improved on keto vs. traditional treatment.

__________________
Salim Morgan, T2
66 Years
DX: 9/2009 A1C=10.7
A1C 2/2010: 6.7 (DX + 4 months)
A1C 5/2010: 6.0 (DX + 8 months)
A1C 8/2010: 5.7 (DX + 11 months)
A1C 11/2010: 5.1 (DX + 14 months)
A1C 9/2011: 5.6 (DX + 2 years)
A1C 7/2012: 5.5 (DX + 2 years 10 months)
A1C 1/2019: 5.5
Diet: Approximately C:10;P:15;F:75 (as % calories)
Exercise: Not much. Stairs at home & work.
NO MEDS, No Highs, No Lows
Grandkids: 22
smorgan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Somoyogi Effect? foxl Diabetes Complications 11 02-02-2011 19:41
Side Effect Of Glucose Tablets breezeonby Diabetes 3 09-09-2010 20:30
effect on heart ronak Diabetes Complications 4 05-22-2010 14:59
Do caffeine and diet sodas effect BG? RSB Diabetes Diet and Nutrition 3 09-01-2009 12:04
Does fat effect insulin absorption? gchoi2925 Diabetes 3 12-07-2008 16:23

LEGAL NOTICE
By using this Website, you agree to abide by our Terms and Conditions (the "Terms"). This notice does not replace our Terms, which you must read in full as they contain important information. You must not post any defamatory, unlawful or undesirable content, or any content copied from a third party, on the Website. You must not copy material from the Website except in accordance with the Terms. This Website gives users an opportunity to share information only and is not intended to contain any advice which you should rely upon. It does not replace the need to take professional or other advice. We have no liability to you or any other person in respect of any content on this Website.


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 00:42.




Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.