Insulin is not needed for glucose uptake and utilization

Go Back   The Diabetes Forum Support Community For Diabetics Online > Diabetes Forum Start Here > Diabetes News

Diabetes News The Diabetes News section is a place to share any new stories or information you have come across related to Diabetes for the rest of the forum to share and discuss. If you have seen or read about new medication, diabetes treatments, medical breakthroughs or any interesting stories of personal interest then please post and discuss them here. From time to time we will take some of the Diabetes News stories from this section and write them up in our Diabetes Blog.


Like Tree16Likes

Insulin is not needed for glucose uptake and utilization


Closed Thread
 
Shared Thread Thread Tools
Old 10-21-2012, 14:48   #1
Active Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 18

Member Type
Type 1
Diagnosed in 2011

1 likes received
2 likes given
Default Insulin is not needed for glucose uptake and utilization

It's nothing new, but I'v never heard it before. I think that it suggests that very little carbs = no needs for insulin injections at all. At least not for controling sugars.
Short summary (near the end):
JISSN | Full text | Metabolic Effects of the Very-Low-Carbohydrate Diets: Misunderstood "Villains" of Human Metabolism
Source:
Insulin, growth hormone and sport

eleventeen is offline  
Old 10-21-2012, 15:47   #2
Senior Member
 
fenix92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Ängelholm, Sweden
Posts: 617

Member Type
Type 1
Diagnosed in 2009

507 likes received
662 likes given
Default

As a type 1 I need to take my basal insulin no matter what. If I'm fasting I obviously don't need to take any bolus shots but to say that no carbs = no insulin is rather irresponsible!

Shanny, foxl, Jen and 1 others like this.
__________________
as suspected: too sweet for my own good
fenix92 is offline  
Old 10-21-2012, 16:24   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 24,394

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 2009

23929 likes received
32255 likes given
Default

There are a few bloopers, but overall, this is a good essay on the benefits of the ketogenic way-of-eating, and it does indeed 'set the record straight'.

I recognize that their target audience is not diabetics, but they are wrong to say no insulin is needed and they are wrong to say DKA happens only to type 1 diabetics. I need to sit down & read the whole thing carefully, and I don't have time for that for at least another week, but I trust others here will dissect it before I get back to it!




MCS likes this.
Shanny is offline  
 
Old 10-21-2012, 17:16   #4
Active Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 18

Member Type
Type 1
Diagnosed in 2011

1 likes received
2 likes given
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fenix92 View Post
As a type 1 I need to take my basal insulin no matter what. If I'm fasting I obviously don't need to take any bolus shots but to say that no carbs = no insulin is rather irresponsible!
Maybe. But why? What exactly would hapenned without insuilin? Authors claim that glucose would be utilized without inulin:
"We now know that there is a sufficient population of glucose transporters in all cell membranes at all times to ensure enough glucose uptake to satisfy the cell’s respiration, even in the absence of insulin."
How need to take insulin is different from "no matter what we need to eat grains"? (ok, I haven't seen studies with type 1 diabetics not taking insulin but I'v seen a lot of low carb diet studies)

eleventeen is offline  
Old 10-21-2012, 17:38   #5
Senior Member
 
fenix92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Ängelholm, Sweden
Posts: 617

Member Type
Type 1
Diagnosed in 2009

507 likes received
662 likes given
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eleventeen View Post
Maybe. But why? What exactly would hapenned without insuilin? Authors claim that glucose would be utilized without inulin:
"We now know that there is a sufficient population of glucose transporters in all cell membranes at all times to ensure enough glucose uptake to satisfy the cell’s respiration, even in the absence of insulin."
How need to take insulin is different from "no matter what we need to eat grains"? (ok, I haven't seen studies with type 1 diabetics not taking insulin but I'v seen a lot of low carb diet studies)
Well, if I don't take my basal insulin my bg-numbers will go up. Assuming I don't eat any carbs it might take some time but eventually I'll end up in DKA - once was enough!
Here is a quote from the article:
It is generally assumed that this is because insulin increases glucose uptake into tissues. However, this is not the case and is just another metabolic legend arising from in vitro rat data. It has been shown that insulin at concentrations that are within the normal physiological range lowers blood glucose through inhibiting hepatic glucose production
As I understand it, they're claiming that the way that insulin lowers bg is not they way it's traditionally meant to work but they're not disputing that it does lower it.

__________________
as suspected: too sweet for my own good
fenix92 is offline  
Old 10-21-2012, 17:52   #6
Senior Member
 
GretchenRS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Missouri USA
Posts: 568

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 2012

400 likes received
647 likes given
Default

I looked at the article and it seemed to me it was intended for a body builder audience and NOT for Type 1 diabetics.
I would think that if a Type 1 could manage without insulin with a very low-carbohydrate diet that someone like Dr. Bernstein would have figured that out long ago. And he still uses insulin (and he is in his 70's and is doing very well).

I think for a Type 1 not to take insulin would be very very risky to their health.

Gretchen

Shanny likes this.
GretchenRS is offline  
Old 10-21-2012, 18:59   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 24,394

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 2009

23929 likes received
32255 likes given
Default

Eleventeen: Our bodies need insulin and our pancreas is there for the purpose of secreting the insulin required to move the glucose nourishment into our cells where it can be used to prevent us from starving to death. To say that our bodies don't need insulin is an asinine statement beyond any sane comprehension. (Click here for biology lesson.) When people develop type 1 diabetes, their pancreases have weakened greatly or died altogether. There is no source of endogenous insulin, and they must survive by using exogenous insulin. Regardless of what they eat or how few carbs they consume, type 1 patients are going to need some insulin. There is no 'why' about it - they'll die without some insulin.

What the article explains is that our bodies can function quite well on ketones, and that removes many of the glucose issues many diabetics have, but it is not a panacea for type 1 diabetics that they can stop their insulin. Lower it, perhaps, not stop completely.

As I said before, this is a fine article you've brought us, but it targets athletes & body builders. It doesn't fit with diabetes, and would you please not argue that it does.




foxl, Patdart and GretchenRS like this.

Last edited by Shanny; 10-21-2012 at 19:09.
Shanny is offline  
Old 10-21-2012, 20:01   #8
Active Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 18

Member Type
Type 1
Diagnosed in 2011

1 likes received
2 likes given
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanny View Post
There is no 'why' about it - they'll die without some insulin.
There's allways a 'why'. Without a 'why' there would be no progress at all. Everybody knows that what you wrote is true. I also know that. But I knew other things that turned out to be false. I'v presented one quorte from article. Thead title is also a direct quote from the artile. Another one:
"The concept of glucose uptake into muscle being ‘insulin dependent’ was born, and has been prevalent in textbooks and teaching up to the present day, even though it was shown to be rubbish 25 years ago."
Are they wrong?
Let's assume a type 1 diabetic that eat 0 carbs, very little protein. Will blood sugar ever decrease? If no, what prove do we have? Authors seem not to believe biology lessons at all, so I guess an actual studies would be necessary (yes, I know that the article also doesn't show any studies. at least I didn't notice it).

eleventeen is offline  
Old 10-21-2012, 20:58   #9
Moderator
 
mbuster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: SW Arkansas
Posts: 8,943

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in Feb. 2012

10892 likes received
6006 likes given
Default

Didn't read the article, but insulin is used for far more than just shuttling glucose around. Probably not the best explanation, but should explain some other uses.

here

Shanny, foxl and fenix92 like this.
__________________
Think I've had this since 2003. Told I was Type 2 lean on 2/13/12.
a1c 8.8 (8/2011) 5.4 (10/2018)
TC 206 LDL 102 HDL 85 TG 96 (10/2018)
Supplemental vitamins and electrolytes
63 YY Love the LCHF diet. The cheese goes well with my whine

updated 10/26/18
mbuster is offline  
Old 10-21-2012, 21:11   #10
Moderator
 
mbuster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: SW Arkansas
Posts: 8,943

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in Feb. 2012

10892 likes received
6006 likes given
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eleventeen View Post
There's allways a 'why'. Without a 'why' there would be no progress at all. Everybody knows that what you wrote is true. I also know that. But I knew other things that turned out to be false. I'v presented one quorte from article. Thead title is also a direct quote from the artile. Another one:
"The concept of glucose uptake into muscle being ‘insulin dependent’ was born, and has been prevalent in textbooks and teaching up to the present day, even though it was shown to be rubbish 25 years ago."
Are they wrong?
Yes they are wrong, glucose is always consumed by the body, other than muscle uptake, and must be replenished.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eleventeen View Post
Let's assume a type 1 diabetic that eat 0 carbs, very little protein. Will blood sugar ever decrease? If no, what prove do we have? Authors seem not to believe biology lessons at all, so I guess an actual studies would be necessary (yes, I know that the article also doesn't show any studies. at least I didn't notice it).
see above. Very little protein, meaning less than minimum required just to maintain the body, will lead to cannibalization of the muscles to supply required glucose.

__________________
Think I've had this since 2003. Told I was Type 2 lean on 2/13/12.
a1c 8.8 (8/2011) 5.4 (10/2018)
TC 206 LDL 102 HDL 85 TG 96 (10/2018)
Supplemental vitamins and electrolytes
63 YY Love the LCHF diet. The cheese goes well with my whine

updated 10/26/18
mbuster is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Type 2 Diabetes – Will a Combined Electronic Glucose Sensor and an Implanted Insulin scottietwenty3 Diabetes News 7 02-09-2012 05:49
How to lower glucose w/out insulin? hoopmama Diabetes in children 22 02-07-2012 17:52
Question about Insulin vs Glucose levels Peter_V Diabetes 0 10-16-2011 06:33
If medication is needed, is insulin ideal? wdmama Diabetes Medication and Supplies 7 06-04-2011 14:20
Less insulin = lower glucose levels Adjitater Diabetes 6 09-08-2010 23:16

LEGAL NOTICE
By using this Website, you agree to abide by our Terms and Conditions (the "Terms"). This notice does not replace our Terms, which you must read in full as they contain important information. You must not post any defamatory, unlawful or undesirable content, or any content copied from a third party, on the Website. You must not copy material from the Website except in accordance with the Terms. This Website gives users an opportunity to share information only and is not intended to contain any advice which you should rely upon. It does not replace the need to take professional or other advice. We have no liability to you or any other person in respect of any content on this Website.


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:48.




Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.