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CarolSue 10-15-2018 00:02

Beta Cells Repaired
 
I have always heard that once there is damage to your Beta Cells it is permanent. This article seems to say that the damaged Beta Cells can be repaired.

https://asweetlife.org/fasting-diet-...-the-pancreas/

Thoughts?

mbuster 10-15-2018 14:11

It sounds worth pursuing, if replicating the process of creation of beta cells in a fetus. Sounds like they are hinting at that in the study. But what keeps an autoimmune response from attacking the new beta cells again in a type 1? If a type 2 has a diminished number of active beta cells, and insulin resistance is not eliminated or earlier diet is resumed, is this just a short reset of greater insulin production. And what damage is that excess insulin going to inflict for those still with insulin resistance? What will the dietary advice be after the cycling process, if it does in fact work.

Yes I'm a pessimist, but I hope that issues can be addressed and this could be a cure.

Winomaster 05-09-2019 10:02

Dieting reduces IR or improves insulin output?
 
Recently, I did six weeks on an intermittent fasting program that was essentially one meal per day. After the six weeks I noticed my BG number was coming down faster than expected during the hours I was not eating. The staff at my diabetes doctor suggested I do a total fast for a few days to sort out if I was taking too much of the Lantus insulin. I was taking 40 units at the time. Turns out I did not need to be taking the Lantus doses at all. The six week intermittent fasting had either improved my insulin production or improved my insulin resistance. It will be awhile before I see the endo for an answer.

Winomaster 05-13-2019 10:18

There is a theory proposed by some that the diminished production of insulin by the pancreas is not an exhaustion or a destruction of beta cells. But rather a SUPPRESSION of the beta cells by increased fat stores surrounding the pancreas. If true, then another explanation is needed for why skinny diabetics have excess glucose levels. They must have severe insulin resistance.

I have a book by a Dr Jason Fung that proposes that Diabetes as we see in the US is in fact two conditions: (You can find videos of him on U-tube)
1) Insulin resistance
2) Beta cell suppression by fat surrounding the pancreas.

So, to reverse diabetes in individuals having fattened on a high sugar diet, an individual would need to address both issues: Lower insulin levels and alter diet to eliminate the gross amounts of fructose that fatten the individual. Of course, diabetes is capable of fattening an individual all on its own, but a high fructose diet serves to deliver a second blow to the individual, intensifying the condition.

itissteve 05-13-2019 13:04

I'm curious -- why just fructose? There are many other forms of sugar.

Winomaster 05-13-2019 23:59

Why Fructose Is the Great villain For Diabetics: Fruit has both fructose and glucose in identical proportions. The glucose can be immediately burned to provide energy. Fructose, on the other hand can only be stored as fat in the liver. So it is much more intensely fattening and is a strong driver of fatty liver disease. When You eat animal protein in amounts greater than your need for protein, the excess is broken down into glucose but no fructose, So carbohydrate derived from this source is less fattening. But eating large amounts of animal protein has its own issues. So, I don't mean to suggest high meat diets are much better.

I'm not certain of the next part, but I think food producers have found a way to separate out the fructose to create foods that are much worse for you than if they had been made with common table sugar. (Half glucose/half fructose.)

itissteve 05-14-2019 00:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winomaster (Post 1319303)
I'm not certain of the next part, but I think food producers have found a way to separate out the fructose to create foods that are much worse for you than if they had been made with common table sugar. (Half glucose/half fructose.)

There is high-fructose corn syrup, which has been a villain in public health for some time now. My understanding, though, is that its popularity has more to do with availability and economics than any habit-forming properties (though we know a great deal of science is conducted in the name of making processed foods taste very appealing).

xring 05-14-2019 01:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winomaster (Post 1319279)
There is a theory proposed by some that the diminished production of insulin by the pancreas is not an exhaustion or a destruction of beta cells. But rather a SUPPRESSION of the beta cells by increased fat stores surrounding the pancreas. If true, then another explanation is needed for why skinny diabetics have excess glucose levels. They must have severe insulin resistance.

I have a book by a Dr Jason Fung that proposes that Diabetes as we see in the US is in fact two conditions: (You can find videos of him on U-tube)
1) Insulin resistance
2) Beta cell suppression by fat surrounding the pancreas.

So, to reverse diabetes in individuals having fattened on a high sugar diet, an individual would need to address both issues: Lower insulin levels and alter diet to eliminate the gross amounts of fructose that fatten the individual. Of course, diabetes is capable of fattening an individual all on its own, but a high fructose diet serves to deliver a second blow to the individual, intensifying the condition.

Theories....Theories. Well, I don't know about #2. My experience certainly disproves that. At diagnosis, my A1c was 9. I didn't want drugs or insulin, so I read a few books, changed my diet, & lost 85 lbs & my blood sugar went down - after 3 months, my A1c was 6.0 & the doctor said, "No meds or insulin needed; you're in a non-diabetic range. I figured it would stay that way, & I did everything right.

When I lost another 15 lbs & my doc said I'm at an ideal weight, don't lose any more, my blood sugar went UP, A1c went up to 10.4 & I needed to start on insulin. Well, I'm staying at 170 lbs, & I'd assume the fat surrounding my pancreas isn't there anymore.
I've heard about the "Fat blocking Beta cells or blocking insulin" theory. Not valid, at least in my case.

Winomaster 05-14-2019 11:59

Clearly you don't have any fat suppression. So you must have insulin resistance. Or declining production in your beta cells. I have had Doctors tell me that if you lose all your excess weight, you are no longer insulin resistant. But the Asian model of diabetes refutes this notion. Their diabetics are skinny for the most part.

Have you ever had that blood test that measures insulin resistance? I don't see how you could be significantly IR if you have lost as much weight as you have. You have to be eating a very low carb diet. Unless you are like a guy I worked with who ate nothing but sugar but was bone and muscle. He was diagnosed diabetic.

I seem to recall that inflammation can drive IR. You might check that theory...that you have such significant inflammation that its that which is driving your IR. Check into it, but I think smoking, bad fats and such can drive inflammation.

xring 05-14-2019 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winomaster (Post 1319317)
Clearly you don't have any fat suppression. So you must have insulin resistance. Or declining production in your beta cells. I have had Doctors tell me that if you lose all your excess weight, you are no longer insulin resistant. But the Asian model of diabetes refutes this notion. Their diabetics are skinny for the most part.

Have you ever had that blood test that measures insulin resistance? I don't see how you could be significantly IR if you have lost as much weight as you have. You have to be eating a very low carb diet. Unless you are like a guy I worked with who ate nothing but sugar but was bone and muscle. He was diagnosed diabetic.

I seem to recall that inflammation can drive IR. You might check that theory...that you have such significant inflammation that its that which is driving your IR. Check into it, but I think smoking, bad fats and such can drive inflammation.

Maybe. I quit smoking 36 years ago. I never heard of a test that measures insulin resistance but I did have a C-Peptide test that measures insulin production. Mine came out "Normal." I asked the doctor, so...why am I diabetic. He just shrugged. Can't blame him; they don't know everything; if they did, they could cure diabetes.

If I am insulin resistant, it can't have anything to do with fat. Probably other unknown causes. I think the "Diabetes or Insulin Resistance caused by Fat" is a theory that seems to make sense, but may not. Perhaps that conclusion was formulated because diabetes is often diagnosed in people who are overweight. But much of the population is overweight, so maybe it's coincidental.
I've also heard that eating starch & carbs causes diabetes...so why is diabetes less prevalent in Asian countries where noodles are a staple?


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