Fasting levels starting at 6.4 and dropping to 5. within an hour??? Help appreciated.

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Fasting levels starting at 6.4 and dropping to 5. within an hour??? Help appreciated.


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Old 06-16-2011, 07:03   #1
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Default Fasting levels starting at 6.4 and dropping to 5. within an hour??? Help appreciated.

Hi,

New to all this. There's a lot I want to discuss - apologies at the wide ranging topics I cover in one post - ...but I'll start with my most urgent question.

This morning I woke up (to screaming children) and at 6:09am my fasting blood sugar was 6.4 (115), which is the highest fasting level I've had since I started keeping track 2.5 weeks ago. I did not eat or take medication. Went back to bed but couldn't sleep (mind whirring) and tested again at 7:07 when I was at 5.0 (90), which is the lowest fasting reading I've ever had. Tested again still fasting at 7:32 and was at 5.7 (102). At this point, still no food, no meds, not even water.

How can this be? Is my meter faulty? I had bought a cheap second meter and just bought strips for it today. I will be using both meters together to get a reading for my morning fasting tests (I am thinking multiple fasting tests are in order now). Assuming it's not faulty meter or poor technique (as far as I know I've coded the meter correctly, washed hands etc), what on earth does this mean? I did not think fasting blood sugar could fluctuate so wildly in the space of an hour. Of course false comfort from low readings is a problem but I am worried that this may indicate something very very wrong with me beyond "just" diabetes?

Has anyone else experienced this. I've tried a couple of quick Google searches but found nothing.

Previous day's food:
07:04 1 tomato, 1 cumcumber lettuce, tiny bit of feta cheese (probably 30-40g), and 6 olives
10:20 1 pear, 1 cucumber
12:20 4 water crackers, 2 slices swiss cheese, 1 cucumber, handful of unsalted cashews
13:40 Glass of diet softdrink (pink lemonade/creaming soda)
16:00 Handful of unsalted cashews, 1 mandarine
19:30 6 crackers ("salada" salted crackers), 230g plain tuna in spring water, 2 slices swiss cheese. Small piece (<10g) white chocolate
22:10 2 slices of lite cheese, 4 eggs, 100g ham, 1 tomato (scrambled eggs)

Not my best day. Certainly not my worst.

Not sure if the rest belongs in an intro thread or not, but the background is relevant so I'm putting it here..

37, BMI approaching but not quite at 50, had terrible eating habits - 2 liters of coke a day wasn't unusual etc. though I had days where I'd go for large salads to fill the hole. (more on that later). A month ago confirmed a diagnosis of type 2 and immediately went on 500g metaformin twice daily.

For now I have managed to really cut down the garbage to small amounts a couple of times a week. Not sticking to the diabetic ideal though right now - I still can't ever imagine switching to brown bread/rice/crackers etc. even if it literally kills me (though I may consider going without altogether to avoid that). Brown stuff all literally tastes like cardboard mixed with dirt to me. I am testing regularly (only twice daily to begin with I was told). I also started keeping a food diary which is why I can tell you exactly what I ate. (I'm finding that stressful too)

Really struggling with food - I am constantly hungry, even to the point of salivating when around it and heightened sense of smell if anyone has food anywhere near me. This is making social events and even watching cooking shows extremely unpleasant. I have always considered my hunger drive broken. I had been diagnosed with IBS and can be in the middle of a debilitating bout sitting on the toilet and still feel hungry, however some illnesses do put me off food (like this chest infection, at least for a few days. I almost wish I was still really sick the hunger is that distracting and miserable). Doctors all want to refer me to a pychologist but I believe subsiding hunger during certain illness does not make psych issues a strong possibility for this hunger. I believe it is physical. I do not believe it is normal, and it is turning my quality of life to dung.

Exercise is non-existent. I use to like walking in the with a camera and did that 2-3 times a week getting off the train a couple of stops early on the way to work. But I have a bad ankle (I was told to fuse it immediately by a surgeon 2 years ago. Looked into it. Not a good option at my age based on the only long term study I found).

To complicate matters I am still trying to get over a chest infection (suspected pnemonia, x-ray was clear but doc said it could not be ruled out). I've been going 7 weeks and just finished my 8th course of anti-biotics earlier this week - I still have a cough. Cold and flu season is awful this year.

I fully realize I will have to do something about exercise but feel I need to wait until this chest infection is truly gone before taking it on.

Also further restrictions to the diet include not being able to eat garlic, onion, capcicum, and various spices. I am not allergic but my wife has severe anaphylaxis and if I eat these things and kiss her even a trace amount potentially could stop her breathing. (Hasn't happened in almost 8 years of being together but that is because we are very careful).

Other medical issues. Sleep apnea (8 years). High blood pressure (treated for about 2 years, just changed meds as my old one stopped working), irritable bowel syndrome, arthitic ankles (one with necrosis due to injury as a teenager), and apparently my kidneys had just started leaking proteins before this change of diet so hoping that whatever damage is reversible or won't progress after getting blood pressure under control. (I will not call my sugars controlled). If you think those issues are bad you should hear about my poor wife's. At least I'm still working, and she has to raise 2 beautiful but demanding children while I'm at work.

I do know this: Things need to change in some way because I honestly don't want 5 years of living the way I have for the last 2 weeks, let alone 30. Trouble is I have 2 infant children and am the only breadwinner for the family so I need 20-25 years just to get them on their own feet financially. However it is a very hard thing to live miserably and for others, even those you love.

Will be seeing a diabetic educator in 2 weeks so hope for more answers/ideas then.

In a whole other thread I will discuss the language of guilt and pride that the medical community and even diabetics use to describe their condition, the volumes of misinformation out there and the fact that even good sources of information don't agree on anything.

Thanks to anyone who read this far, and thanks in advance if you respond.

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Old 06-16-2011, 10:44   #2
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Default How accurate are the meters suppose to be?

Okay, just how accurate are the meters suppose to be anyway??

I just tested with 2 meters. Same brand, different meter. Both code chips correctly installed. Here are the results:

All readings from blood from the same lancing within 2 mins of each other.
Meter 1 - Reading 1 - 5.8 (104)
Meter 1 - Reading 2 - 6.0 (108)
Meter 2 - Reading 1 - 6.2 (112)
Meter 2 - Reading 2 - 6.8 (122)

What in blazes is going on??? I'm getting very frustrated! Is this sort of variation normal.

I have been stressing for the last 2 weeks over a total variation of 4.9 (88) to 7.4 (133) - both these readings within 7 hours of each other by the way - the high one 2 hrs after food, the low one about 40 mins after food (and 10 mins after eating a strawberry).

When I was being taught how to use the things, the nurse all but scolded me for a reading of 6.2 at 2 hours after food! "That's okay, but not good. You should be back under 5.5" she said.

For pity sake I was miserable and I ate next to nothing at my daughter's first birthday party because I started off with a reading of 5.5 and had a reading of 6.8 2 hrs after food. I feel like a complete idiot!

I need very badly to get a handle on this before I either lose my mind or throw my meters away, eat as healthy as I can, and just accept that my life's been shortened.

I just found this:
answers dot yahoo dot com/question/index?qid=20090927071856AADLnCe
(Sorry I can't post an actual link till I've made 5 posts)

I thought they were suppose to be accurate to within 0.1 or 0.2?

I'm sorry but if the meters are so inaccurate, people who live their lives by them are living a lie. All they'll give is ball park. Anything else is wishful thinking and fiction. Getting stressed, depressed, irritated or upset at even a 2 (36) point variation is counter-productive since stress raises your blood sugar. But doubly so if the things are this far off.

I think I'm going to be testing a hell of a lot less. The numbers don't change what I'm putting in my mouth, and certainly based on this for variations of under 2 "good" numbers shouldn't be a reason to slacken off or indulge, and "bad" numbers shouldn't be a reason to cut back. I'd be better off carrying a magic 8 ball.

I can't wait to see what my first A1C result is. I trust that's not a made up random number.

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Old 06-16-2011, 12:01   #3
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Welcome Sedeinco! and yes the meters DO vary, I've read up to 20% difference in readings, but in my case that has been ~5%. YMMV
There are many variables that affect each of us differently and I for one feel your doing fairly well, esp. the after meal readings.
Hang in there and find foods that work best for you. To find those foods you'll need to use your meter and at times the readings will go higher than we would like.
So far as the Nurse saying your after meal reading should be under 5.5, well

Quote:
Originally Posted by sedeinco View Post
Okay, just how accurate are the meters suppose to be anyway??

I just tested with 2 meters. Same brand, different meter. Both code chips correctly installed. Here are the results:

All readings from blood from the same lancing within 2 mins of each other.
Meter 1 - Reading 1 - 5.8 (104)
Meter 1 - Reading 2 - 6.0 (108)
Meter 2 - Reading 1 - 6.2 (112)
Meter 2 - Reading 2 - 6.8 (122)

What in blazes is going on??? I'm getting very frustrated! Is this sort of variation normal.

I have been stressing for the last 2 weeks over a total variation of 4.9 (88) to 7.4 (133) - both these readings within 7 hours of each other by the way - the high one 2 hrs after food, the low one about 40 mins after food (and 10 mins after eating a strawberry).

When I was being taught how to use the things, the nurse all but scolded me for a reading of 6.2 at 2 hours after food! "That's okay, but not good. You should be back under 5.5" she said.

For pity sake I was miserable and I ate next to nothing at my daughter's first birthday party because I started off with a reading of 5.5 and had a reading of 6.8 2 hrs after food. I feel like a complete idiot!

I need very badly to get a handle on this before I either lose my mind or throw my meters away, eat as healthy as I can, and just accept that my life's been shortened.

I just found this:
answers dot yahoo dot com/question/index?qid=20090927071856AADLnCe
(Sorry I can't post an actual link till I've made 5 posts)

I thought they were suppose to be accurate to within 0.1 or 0.2?

I'm sorry but if the meters are so inaccurate, people who live their lives by them are living a lie. All they'll give is ball park. Anything else is wishful thinking and fiction. Getting stressed, depressed, irritated or upset at even a 2 (36) point variation is counter-productive since stress raises your blood sugar. But doubly so if the things are this far off.

I think I'm going to be testing a hell of a lot less. The numbers don't change what I'm putting in my mouth, and certainly based on this for variations of under 2 "good" numbers shouldn't be a reason to slacken off or indulge, and "bad" numbers shouldn't be a reason to cut back. I'd be better off carrying a magic 8 ball.

I can't wait to see what my first A1C result is. I trust that's not a made up random number.

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Old 06-16-2011, 12:10   #4
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Thanks for the response Larry, and for the words of encouragement. It is very much appreciated.

I just hope my rather extreme frustration does not come across as hostility or abrasiveness.

Now that I've had a couple of hours to cool down I will say that while I don't plan on completely tossing the meter at this stage, i will only continue to test and keep this meticulous a food diary for the next couple of weeks. After which I'll probably test some days on some off.

At this point I really need to know how large a set of error bars to put on my graphs. So thank you very much for your suggestion 20% and your practical experience that it's around 5%. That really does help. Would you happen to have references? One thing I need to do is pull out the manuals for the meters and take a look at what they say.

I am not the sort of person who's ever been able to tolerate or function on Voodoo. I need reality and that means science to be able to adjust my behaviour.

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Old 06-16-2011, 13:13   #5
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There's nothing wrong with your blood sugar levels and there's nothing wrong with your meters. Your numbers are fine - your meters are within the variance allowed, as Larry has explained. It would prob'ly be good to just pick one & stay with it. If it's consistent with itself, that's enough. Don't try comparing brands - you'll drive yourself crazy.

Sedinco, the voodoo you're getting is in the doctor's office, where they seem to think an adult male raising a family and earning a living should exist on crackers & cucumbers! My god, man - no wonder you're hungry.

Now I'm going to tell you how diabetics REALLY control their disorder: To begin with, throw away all the crackers & other breads - don't switch to "brown" anything, because the carbohydrate in your diet is what raises your blood sugar. So after you've eliminated the breads, you'll be getting rid of the potatoes, rice, pasta & cereals too. Now get ready to eat like a king.

Sit down to a nice plate of ham & eggs for breakfast - no toast/muffins/bagels, no fruit or fruit juice, just all you can eat of ham or bacon or sausage & eggs.

For lunch, have a nice tuna salad made with full fat mayonnaise, maybe some grated cheese and/or diced hard-cooked egg mixed in.

For dinner, have a nice big pork chop, beef steak, chicken or fish with a green tossed salad, and some sugar/free pudding for dessert.

For snacks between meals, use a handful of nuts, beef or cheese sticks, or any other low or zero-carb food.

If you haven't gotten the picture yet, you need to build your meals around protein & fats . . . ditch the carbohydrates.

(more to come - stay tuned)

and btw - welcome to DF!




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Old 06-16-2011, 15:15   #6
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First of all you are doing fine, don't over analyze every number. Your numbers go up and down all day long, that is how our bodies work. They don't stay at a stable number. Also meters have a margin of error up to 20%. I like to keep my bgs in a fairly tight range anywhere from 90-110. As long as I am in the range I feel I am doing OK. You say you are hungry all the time, you may need to redo your diet a little. I would definitely take away the fruit and crackers and add some protein, fat and more veggies with fiber. The more carbs you eat the more cravings you will have. I do eat crackers but only bran crackers that are low carb and high fiber. Plus I always eat them with almond butter and Coconut Oil. The added fat helps me stay full. As far as the exercise, you can only do what you can do. But there are plenty of exercise you can do without walking. Try doing light weights from a seated position. You can also do a lot of exercises lying on the floor that work different muscle groups. Building more muscle will help your metabolism and lower BMI.

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Old 06-16-2011, 15:31   #7
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Thanks for the reply Shanny.

I'm getting so much mixed information that I don't know what to believe. But I appreciate and will evaluate any and all genuine attempts to help and am very grateful for your response.

What you're recommending sounds a lot like an Atkins style diet. Especially with my Kidneys spilling protein albeit not at hugely elevated levels, I'm very nervous about going for a high fat high protein diet. I need time to think it through, do a little research on what my current levels mean, and I'd also like to see how my body adjusts to the new diet I'm currently on (if you can call it that - it's a little too disorganised to call a strict diet). I'm also not sure if the metaformin is the right medication for me - there seems to be some talk that it is rough on kidneys. I can cope better with the idea of having a heart attack and dying early (except for leaving the kids without financial support!) than I can with losing sight, limbs or ending up on dialysis and dying of renal failure (especially early)

Also very nervous that I now have both IBS and Diabetes. I need to work out if the stomach bloating and cramps are related. They didn't and don't only come when I've been eating lots or eating unhealthy food. So I'm wondering about underlying conditions. (Of course it'll now be difficult to distinguish digestive issues caused by metaformin vs IBS). I haven't found anything definite that fits, but I do worry about either pancreatitis or pancreatic cancer or even kidney stones. (I'm not losing weight and the IBS comes and goes, so I don't think they're likely, but it would be ironic to make such efforts to get healthy then die a drawn out painful death in the next 2 years don't you think?).

I'm trying very hard not to become a hypochondriac here. It's very easy to second guess EVERYTHING - are my blurry eyes from diabetes or from sitting at a computer screen for 12+ hours a day? (I never had good eyesight - near sighted and stigmatism). I'm urinating an awful lot in the last 2-3 days. Is that because I'm drinking a lot more water or is that a sign my blood sugar is spiking....the list goes on.

It doesn't help that the quality of some of the medical professionals I've interacted with is....lacking. Doctors that don't know not to examine an infected ear and look at a good ear without cleaning equpment. One doctor I saw recently (out of hours just to get a script for the end of a course of antibiotics I had lost) tried instead to get me to buy meal replacement shakes before even addressing my chest infection. He literally said "Would you like to lose all your weight and make your diabetes magically disappear". A doctor using the word "magic". MIND BOGGLING. (Not to mention that he decided my cough was an allergic reaction. Funny that I caught this allergic reaction from my wife and kids and that we'd been passing it back and forth for 6 weeks).

Then there's other mind games. To get strips at low cost here in Aust you have to register with a government scheme called NDSS. That is free. You also are encouraged to register (for modest cost) with the "Diabetes Council". I feel like a dog registering himself with the council. (But I'll admit I have dogs on the brain. My pet of nearly 12 years died less than 3 weeks ago).

There's plenty of Voodoo out there and in amongst it is good advice. From medical professionals and unqualified quacks alike. And there's a lot to know. I hadn't even heard of type 1.5 / LADA until today. I don't think standard practices for determining if you're type 2 are very scientific. And a 20% variation in meter readings is a mind blowing shock. I found a thread on another forum where someone had done similar testing with 2 meters and they showed up to 40% variation between readings from 2 different brands of meter. Has the medical profession never heard of error bars for crying out loud?! I feel very stupid for worrying about minor fluctuations. But the target range is only 2-4 points so a 1-2 point fluctuation in readings makes the whole game much harder.

I am also sick and tired of all the guilt riddled language on the forums and from diabetics. People talk about falling off the wagon etc. I can understand giving in to a craving - I won't pretend I'm so strong that never happens or that I could completely stop it. But I try to make any indulgences planned in advance and controlled. I just don't see how going around whipping oneself improves health. It's just self-defeating nonsense. Wanting to eat is nothing like alcoholism. You can't go without food. You can cut certain foods out, but you can't avoid being around them.

Anyway, time for bed. Will deal with this again tomorrow.

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Old 06-16-2011, 15:34   #8
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Thanks for your input jwags. If a lot of experienced people here say low carb high fat is the way to go I'd be a fool not to listen and investigate. I'll do that.

As for excercise I can't think of a seated excercise that I can do that won't drive me insane but I'll have to face that reality very soon. Upper body excercise of some sort is definitely going to be the way to go. (I can't swim. I get bad ear infections even if I try to use plugs).

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Old 06-16-2011, 16:24   #9
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Hi - welcome to this great forum.

First - your numbers are not dreadful. Could they come down a little? Sure. But there is nothing to indicate your life will be shortened; your bg is not out of control. I had undiagnosed diabetes for who knows how long, truly high numbers, and now that my diabetes is under control, I expect to have a normal life and live as long as parents did (my mom is 92.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sedeinco View Post
'm trying very hard not to become a hypochondriac here.
Good! That's important. Keep working on it.

Secondly - I would be a ravenous b**ch if I was eating what you are. I'm glad you're going to look into increasing healthy fats in your diet - they not only will take care of the hunger but be important for your health.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sedeinco View Post
I'm getting so much mixed information that I don't know what to believe.
I was in your position just 4 months ago. My strategy was to go with the consensus of real people having real success, and people who had found success by abandoning the official line of so-called Diabetes Educators and diabetes organizations. You can look at the numbers in my sig to see my results.

You have likely gotten this site already, but if not, this site is incredibly informative and backed up by cited studies: Blood Sugar 101

Quote:
Originally Posted by sedeinco View Post
I can't wait to see what my first A1C result is. I trust that's not a made up random number.
It's an accurate number for what it is, but given it's an average, it says nothing about fluctuations. The best control is when we remain in a narrower range without huge spikes and lows. To see how we're doing in that regard we need to test test test.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sedeinco View Post
People talk about falling off the wagon etc. I can understand giving in to a craving - I won't pretend I'm so strong that never happens or that I could completely stop it. But I try to make any indulgences planned in advance and controlled. I just don't see how going around whipping oneself improves health. It's just self-defeating nonsense.
I hope you will come to have tolerance for diabetics who don't think and act just as you do. Diabetes is a challenge for many of us, and we're not all planners with perfect control. I agree we need not to beat ourselves up about our imperfections, but we're human with human emotions, and calling our responses nonsense isn't terribly helpful. We diabetics are all in this together.

I hope you will indeed reconsider your diet, because relief from your extreme hunger is waiting for you on the other side.

Glad you're here.

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A1C: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Other Stuff
2/13/11 .. 14.7 . . . . . . Trig/HDL ratio .. 5.5 to 2.2 in 6 mo
5/23/11 .. 6.2 . . . . . . . Low-carb/high healthy-fat diet
9/8/11 .... 5.6 . . . . . . . No meds, No statin
2/24/16 .... basal/bolus insulin 2-3 days/wk due to steroids

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Old 06-16-2011, 17:27   #10
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Welcome! Reread Shanny's post and heed it and then read Blood Sugar 101 and reread it a couple of times. I found it most helpful in the beginning. Carbs make me crave more carbs...I've known since childhood that if I ate pancakes I was starving in a couple of hours, for example. Bacon/ham and eggs leave me full for several hours in contrast.

I can't tell you what your kidney problem is about, but I'd do a very thorough investigation with my medical advisors about it. I truly don't think eating a healthy diet...low carb/high fat will do much, if any damage.

Breathe deeply and relax as best you can. This is not a sprint, it is a journey and it will take you some time to get comfortable with it.

For what it is worth, I use cheese, sliced, or stick form for snacks and it is good and filling.

Good luck, and keep us posted on your journey...




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