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lirre 12-31-2013 19:50

High and fast blood sugar spikes
 
Hi. I'm new to this forum.

I have this problem of high blood sugar levels and fast spiking of blood sugar. I am diagnosed not having diabetes according to my doctor but I do not agree with him. I think I have IGT. Morning fasting blood glucose seems normal 77~90 md/dl

I wonder why I spike so high and especially why so early? Is it common thing? What might the causes be? I feel this burn/sting on my right I after my oral glucose tolerance test. So I got little worried and is asking now.

My blood sugar spikes around 20 to 40 mins after a meal and I have been eating a vegan diet, low in fat and low GI. It is the suggestions of Neal Barnard's book. My blood sugar levels lies in around 7~9 mmol/l (126~162 mg/dl) and even sometimes above 10 mmol/l (180 mg/dl) within the time interval mentioned, which is way to high I think. I want to be below 140 mg/dl and optimally below 120mg/dl. I have not counted my carbs on meals (which the book stated is not needed), which is not so good I think. this is a typical meal for me: lots of sallad, some beans, rice or pasta and then a fruit.

After around 1h my blood sugar levels are around 5.2~6.8 mmol/l (93~122 mg/dl).

before I started the diet I was not overweight, 145 lbs, and after the diet 139 lbs (after 2 weeks), still not overweight :) So the diet was at least good in making me loose weight but I did feel hungry more often than when I was on a lower carb diet.

A side note is that I was on a lower carb diet before trying the vegan low fat low GI diet. My typical meal would be very little rice with lots of meat and some vegetable. I had problem with constipation and carb cravings + got tired of eating meat all the time, so I switched to this diet after reading the book and had issues with high blood sugar after eating some white bread (sorry did not count carbs). Note that I did not measure my blood sugar in the spiking intervals mentioned. But I measured after 1h and at those times it was in normal range (below 120 mg/dl), if I avoided fast carbs like white bread.

One thing that I could not find about is: Let's say I went into the ketogenic phase by eating a low carb diet, and then I switch to the Neal Barnard diet. Will there be some kind of transition phase? Like because the body is still using protein to make glucose, a switch of diet will make the body confused because of the sudden decrease of protein from food, so the liver starts to dump glucose into the blood stream that it has stored and give a quick glucose spikes in the blood?

Has anyone had any experience with the vegan, low fat, low GI diet and it worked well for them and they are not overwight (important)? I suspect this diet is good for weight loss and some shaving of the a1c but for me (not overweight) it can not make my blood sugar control work well (spikes to early and much). Not sure if spikes are due to the diet though.

BTW, happy new year :)

Shanny 12-31-2013 20:03

Hello and welcome, lirre. You're wise to question the vegan diet, and you'd be wise to go back to cutting carbs.

Neal Barnard is an animal rights activist (PETA) which is why he wants you eating high-carb plants. His interests are in saving animals, not helping humans eat right, and he makes millions of dollars selling his lies to unsuspecting diabetics. His PCRM organization purports to be physicians, but they are not . . . they are simply the people who donate money to his cause.




VeeJay 12-31-2013 20:10

Read here for the real truth about diabetes. Blood Sugar 101 And what it takes to bring BG down and keep it there.

The 1hr spike after a meal is what usually happens. As diabetics, we do not have the first phase insulin response that immediately takes care of incoming glucose. So our BG raises until the 2nd phase response, about an hour later, comes into play. The strategy is to not eat so many carbs at a meal (or anytime) that our BG raises over 140/7.8 at the highest spike. This is only achieved by eating low-carb - and HIGH fat. Fats do not impact blood glucose - at all. So we fill up with fats, keep protein moderate, and carbs low. Experience has taught us that eating a lot of grains, beans, and fruit (high-carb foods) is useless in controlling BG.

lirre 12-31-2013 20:29

So the 20 to 40 mins to spike blood sugar (peak it) is possible for a person with diabetes? Isnt it More like 45 mins for normal people and more late peak because of bad first phase insulin, hence the 1h mark for testing.

Why do you say moderate protein intake? Is it dangerous to eat a lot protein?

How about the claims that barnard mentions in the Book about animal proteins being bad for the kidneys. And dairy products being bad?

Do you guys usually check gi when eating the carbs?

Hos about the transition phase that i speculated about? Anyone know anything about that? Reason i want to know is If it is true maybe i get high blod sugar levels and early spikes because of it and not due to higher carb intake.

Shanny 12-31-2013 20:35

Non-diabetic people don't get high blood sugar regardless what they eat, because they have functioning pancreases which respond promptly and precisely with insulin to cover the carbs they eat. You get high blood sugar and spikes because your pancreas is compromised and can't handle all the carbs you eat - it can't provide enough insulin all by itself.




VeeJay 12-31-2013 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by lirre (Post 348682)
Why do you say moderate protein intake? Is it dangerous to eat a lot protein?.

Because if one eats more than is needed for body repair and maintenance, the excess protein will be taken up by the liver stored as glycogen. The liver can and does produce glucose from this and dumps it into the blood stream whenever it gets the signal that you haven't eaten and need it for fuel and energy.

The problem is that with this extra glucose being dumped into the blood, as diabetics we don't have the accompanying insulin response to take care of it, so our BG will rise.

So, for a diabetic, it is prudent to keep protein down to what is actually needed. The LCHF diet is not a high-protein diet - or shouldn't be for a diabetic.

While this would not be a problem for a non-diabetic - all the rules change when one has diabetes. Those of us on this forum have found out what works, and that is the LC/HF way of eating.

mbuster 12-31-2013 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by lirre (Post 348682)
So the 20 to 40 mins to spike blood sugar (peak it) is possible for a person with diabetes? Isnt it More like 45 mins for normal people and more late peak because of bad first phase insulin, hence the 1h mark for testing.

Why do you say moderate protein intake? Is it dangerous to eat a lot protein?

How about the claims that barnard mentions in the Book about animal proteins being bad for the kidneys. And dairy products being bad?

Do you guys usually check gi when eating the carbs?

Hos about the transition phase that i speculated about? Anyone know anything about that? Reason i want to know is If it is true maybe i get high blod sugar levels and early spikes because of it and not due to higher carb intake.

I started to go that route but only got to pescatarian (Fish, seafood, egg, dairy, vegetarian). After getting on this forum, it didn't take long to see LCHF was my better option. Unless I had some serious sensitivities to a lot of different foods, and some people do, I would shy away from vegan. Barnyard suggest eating carby foods. Wouldn't logic say that minimizing or eliminating things that contribute directly to raising BG would be the best way to deal with this?

High spikes may indicate you have a signaling issue to get insulin started.

Moderate protein - protein is broken down into amino acids. Excess amino acids, more than needed for body maintenance / muscle building are converted to glycogen and stored in the liver to be converted into glucose later.

Animal protein - if I'm selling Fords (veg. protein), I'm gonna talk bad about Chevys (animal protein). I read the book too.

GI - glycemic index just covers up the fact that slow conversion of carb to glucose is still so much glucose that gets in your blood. Low GI doesn't raise your blood glucose as high initially but keeps it elevated longer.

Transition phase - not like you are seeing it. High BG becomes norm, as you eat things that don't keep your numbers up, your liver will help out trying to keep you at the higher numbers. Nothing to do with protein specifically.

Mary, 12-31-2013 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by lirre (Post 348538)
I suspect this diet is good for weight loss and some shaving of the a1c...

You have this backwards. Because a vegan diet is almost pure carbs, it will raise a diabetic's A1C, which would require more insulin or other medications to control blood sugar. A1C's decrease from good control, which includes reducing carbs.

mbuster 12-31-2013 21:54

Mary is right. The only thing that eating in this direction did for me was get my cholesterol numbers dangerously low, statins helped with that too. BG didn't really change at all because my carb intake didn't change.

lirre 01-01-2014 00:01

Hi. Thanks all for very informative answers. I will read more about low carb dieting and cutting carbs.

I am curious in: usually how long does it take for your BG to peak? Does anyone have similar issue as me?

Is it of any significance for helping me deal with BG control knowing when i peak?

In bloodsugar101 website, refering to research says that in a normal person it is 45 mins and for IGT it is around 1h. But my case 20 to 40 mins. Is there some way to make the insulin signaling kick in faster so i can avoid the high peak?


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