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Which analgesic is safe?

21K views 42 replies 8 participants last post by  Irene 
#1 ·
Hi,

I hurt my back a week ago, and it has been improving slowly but it certainly is painful. I would like to take something, but NSAIDs are out for me due to drug interaction with another drug I take (not a diabetic one). I was told by the hospital pharmacist some time ago that a baby aspirin is OK - which i tried and is really weak. "Tylenol" is listed as an "alternative". Does anyone know if it's safe with Metformin and Glyclazide? I just hope it's ok with the other drugs too and does not interfere with bg's.

Thanks to anyone who has had to take OTC pain pills- experience.
 
#2 · (Edited)
Note: baby aspirin is an NSAID

As I understand it no analgesic is "safe" for long term (chronic) use. Analgesics corrupt your body's nerve signaling and your body will either fight it or eventually ignore it. There are risks, you have to take your chances or live with the pain.

When I was using 4 x 325 mg of aspirin years ago to reduce my arthritic pain I mixed it with sodium bicarbonate ( homemade alkaseltzer ) to reduce perforation of my guts. But a doctor told me that I bleed too much because it thinned my blood too much.

A few years later when my pain from arthritis was extremely sever (better off dead), i tried DMSO externally. It worked somewhat but not good enough so I tried it internally (strongly not advised) and it worked, my resting arthritic pain was gone! I no longer required any med to control resting arthritic pain because the pain was no longer there. Now I could at least rest and sleep!

I now use magnetic pulsing (like The Magnetic Pulser by SOTA) to control resting arthritic pain.

The only other med that I use for extreme pain (better off dead) is Vicodin (hydrocodone/apap 7.5/750) for very short term use, long term use will kill you.

I have no means of controlling active arthritic pain (like that induced when walking).

I still use Glucosamine, Chondroitin, & MSM to help rebuild my knees. I have heard that excessive use of Glucosamine can itself cause diabetes.

Others have mentioned that they have used Morphine Sulfate, I know nothing of this med.

Good Luck

ColaJim
 
#3 ·
As I understand it no analgesic is "safe" for long term (chronic) use. Analgesics corrupt your body's nerve signaling and your body will either fight it or eventually ignore it. There are risks, you have to take your chances or live with the pain.

Hi ColaJim,

Drug interactions should be a field of medicine in itself these days; yup you gotta know which ones to take together without getting sicker. But sometimes the pain is bad enough to take some risk. I know a relative of mine with arthritis that must take Tylenol at least and cortisol at most-- otherwise life is unbearable.


When I was using 4 x 325 mg of aspirin years ago to reduce my arthritic pain I mixed it with sodium bicarbonate ( homemade alkaseltzer ) to reduce perforation of my guts. But a doctor told me that I bleed too much because it thinned my blood too much.
Personally, i think aspirin is overrated as an anelgesic and certainly a bleeder -- you don't want to take that with ulcers or coumadin for example.



A few years later when my pain from arthritis was extremely sever (better off dead), i tried DMSO externally. It worked somewhat but not good enough so I tried it internally (strongly not advised) and it worked, my resting arthritic pain was gone! I no longer required any med to control resting arthritic pain because the pain was no longer there. Now I could at least rest and sleep!
What is DMSO?

I now use magnetic pulsing (like a Sota Pulser) to control resting arthritic pain.
Again, i don't about these mechanical options but i will mention it to my friend with arthritis.


The only other med that I use for extreme pain (better off dead) is Vicodin (hydrocodone/apap 7.5/750) for very short term use, long term use will kill you.
Is this a prescription drug?


I have no means of controlling active arthritic pain (like that induced when walking).

I still use Glucosamine, Chondroitin, & MSM to help rebuild my knees. I have heard that excessive use of Glucosamine can itself cause diabetes.
Poor thing.

Others have mentioned that they have used Morphine Sulfate, I know nothing of this med.

I think the opiates should become legal. They have so many uses and are incomparabe to any other drug. You don't have to get addicted if it is a short term or intermittent use for pain, and other ailments.

BTW, I just took 500mg Tylenol for my back. Yup it worked. But I don't think i can take to much because of a bit of an interaction with one of my non-diabetic drugs -- but no worse that some NSAIDs so it may be liver metabolism. I get a bit of inability to take a deep breath -- whatever that is or means, medically.

If the pain gets really bad, which i hope will not with time, it is an option. Fortunately I can sleep OK.

tx for your reply.

You know there was a time before the 50s when all the good drugs were OTC.
 
#5 ·
I also use Vicodin ES for pain, and have for many years. I use about 1/10th of what is prescribed for me, and have not wavered from this during the years I've needed it. Yes, it's prescription, and being an opiate highly addictive.

When I start a new med, I always input all my meds into an online checker - here's one: Drug Interactions Checker | Drugs.com - to check for interactions, but also always ask my pharmacist. A good pharmacist is golden in this, and knows far more than one's regular doc since it is, after all, what they do.

The drug interaction site will sometimes come up with contraindications that aren't common, but a pharmacist is the best person to help sort all that out.
 
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#6 ·
moon

moon:

I was referring to the Acetaminophen rotting out your guts if taken a lot over your life time, not the Hydrocodone.
Vicodin ES (Hydrocodone Bitartrate and Acetaminophen)
 
#7 ·
Why would Acetominophen rot out your guts ColaJim? Anyway, i do not plan to take it for long term at all as i do see an improvement in my back every day. This is the first time i took it.

"Drugs have taught an entire generation of American kids the metric system."
~P.J. O'Rourke
 
#9 · (Edited)
perhaps I should have said "it may destroy your liver and kidneys"

I have heard on the net that there seems to be a life time limit in the use of acetaminophen.

"This means that you are twice as likely to end up on dialysis if you take between 1000 and 4999 Tylenol or acetaminophen pills during your entire lifetime!. That's slightly over ten bottles of pills. Over your lifetime!"

http://diabetesupdate.blogspot.com/2007/03/more-evidence-that-common-over-counter.html

http://www.lef.org/protocols/appendix/otc_toxicity_01.htm

Acetaminophen (Tylenol) Poisoning
 
#15 ·
My reason for using NSAIDS is to reduce inflammation. I figure if whatever is inflamed can be soothed, the pain will take care of itself. If I need pain relief, I take hydrocodoneAPAP 5-500, but never more than two at once & always on the prescribed time schedule. It's a fairly mild pain killer & I thank my lucky stars I've never needed anything stronger than that.
 
#16 ·
This is a sad situation you are in ColaJim. I am sorry your kidneys are failing. That's rough. On the other hand, if you have alternatives to drugs that eases your pain, great. They do sound expensive except the ones at Radio Shack (here in Canada it now called The Source). You say that opiates are hard to get -- well, i suppose they are mostly illegal. I wonder if Oxycontin is a sister drug.

I do wish you all the best and I am sorry you have to keep searching for something to ease your pain. It sounds like you have been through a lot, maybe even a war.

Cheers and have a nice evening. Thanks for all the info. I will be vigilant with the Tylenol.
----------------------------
 
#18 ·
Francois

Francois:

Due to the constant agonizing pain I was in, I was unconcerned about any smell.
And I eat garlic also without regard for other people's sensitive noses. I am not a very sociable person to begin with so garlic may be part of my personal privacy defense. :p :D
 
#19 ·
Acetaminophen and aspirin are different animals in that acetaminophen has minimal if any anti-inflammatory actions. Aspirin does and was the drug of choice (may still be) for Rheumatoid Arthritis. If one is worried about the potential effects of aspirin on their stomach lining, purchase the Enteric coated type. This will not dissolve in an acidic media (stomach) but in and alkaline media (small intestine).

I take 2 Aleve (Naproxen) in the AM an PM for back pains. I couple that with 2 Tylenol Extended Release tablets every 8 to 12 hours. That combo works well for me.
 
#20 ·
Good tip Insulation Tim. But you know that aspirin is contraindicated for diabetics because it interfers with the blood glucose. As for inflammation, I do not know what my problem is, only that I strained in an awkward position and about 24 hrs. later started gettng back pain. I am taking 350 Acetominiphen -- no more than 1 or 2 tablets per day due t the warnings here about liver and kidney - as far as i know i have no problems with liver and kidney, but sometimes the pain is so bad that fatal hepatitis may just put me out of my misery, lol.
 
#22 ·
Irene,

I believe that you are wrong about aspirin being contraindicated for diabetics. Rather it is recomended.

See this article from ADA:

Aspirin Therapy in Diabetes

American Diabetes Association
APT, Anti-Platelet Trialists
ETDRS, Early Treatment Diabetic Retinopathy Study

People with diabetes have a two- to fourfold increase in the risk of dying from the complications of cardiovascular disease. Both men and women are at increased risk. Atherosclerosis and vascular thrombosis are major contributors, and it is generally accepted that platelets are contributory. Platelets from men and women with diabetes are often hypersensitive in vitro to platelet aggregating agents. A major mechanism is increased production of thromboxane, a potent vasoconstrictor and platelet aggregant. Investigators have found evidence in vivo of excess thromboxane release in type 2 diabetic patients with cardiovascular disease. Aspirin blocks thromboxane synthesis by acetylating platelet cyclo-oxygenase and has been used as a primary and secondary strategy to prevent cardiovascular events in nondiabetic and diabetic individuals. Meta-analyses of these studies and large-scale collaborative trials in men and women with diabetes support the view that low-dose aspirin therapy should be prescribed as a secondary prevention strategy, if no contraindications exist. Substantial evidence suggests that low-dose aspirin therapy should also be used as a primary prevention strategy in men and women with diabetes who are at high risk (over age 40 or with other CVD risk factors) for cardiovascular events (1–3). Despite its proven efficacy, aspirin therapy is underutilized in patients with diabetes. Available data suggest that less than half of eligible patients are being treated with aspirin.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Cyclobenzaprine

If you are "up tight", have severe anxiety and are hostile like me, then talk to your doctor about trying Cyclobenzaprine (Flexeril). It can reduce all sorts of pains and attitudes if hidden stress is the basic problem. It's main function is as a muscle relaxant but that may be all you need to stabilize your body. Flexeril is about the least addictive and mildest psycho-toxin available and it doesn't dumb you down as much as other direct mind altering drugs. Women sometimes even use it to reduce chronic migraines.
http://www.rxlist.com/librium-drug.htm

When that doesn't work I use chlordiazepoxide (Librium), it's more addictive, it fades, and I wouldn't recommend it for long term use.
Librium (Chlordiazepoxide) Drug Information: User Reviews, Side Effects, Drug Interactions and Dosage at RxList

My information and experience is at least 6 years old so your doctor may have newer/better solutions.

ColaJim
 
#24 ·
For CVD I take sodium ascorbate 3 grams, l-lysine 1 gram, l-proline 0.5 grams, r-ala 100 mg, ala 600 mg, three times a day, and Nattokinase 100 mg, 2,000 FU once a day. I also take Ribose 5 grams in my morning coffee.
 
#25 ·
Thanks ColaJim,

Actually, our pharmacist just recommended a combo of Acetaminophen, Codeine and caffeine, which is a package contain much less acetamininophen (thought you might like that). I'm not trying Tylenol with the methocarbamol, as it is something really new and would like someone to be around-- just in case, heh.

Hope to come back with good news soon. And I hope people are benefiting from this analgesics discussion.
 
#31 · (Edited)
...I'm not trying Tylenol with the methocarbamol, as it is something really new...
Almost every pharmacy has these either over-the-counter or sitting beside their tylenol somewhere, depending on the laws in your area.

It's most commonly recognized under the brand name Robaxacet.

However it's not an anti-inflammatory or NSAID - it's a low-dose muscle relaxant. In combination with Tylenol it's commonly used to combat back pain/muscle spasms.

Most people don't experience many side effects - drowsiness or dizziness being the most common.

For me, Robaxacet and it's generic equivalents have about the same effect as M&M's. But I have a very-high tolerance to prescription medication - if a combination of flexeril, naproxen and tramadol doesn't affect me much - obviously a robaxacet won't do much.
 
#28 ·
my broken L-2 vertibrae. It hurts like _ell.
Wha ...? How did I miss this? Pat! I recall all sorts of things (angiogram) but this whooshed right by me, or else I'm entering some dangerous short-term memory issues.

=ouch=
 
#29 ·
Yep, it happened to me a couple of weeks ago...and boy, is it painful. Don't think I mentioned it, Shanny, but I did have it x-rayed and it is a 'traumatic' compression fracture for a sudden fall which made me sit down suddenly without a cause I know of.

Ouch is right! You don't happen to have a short term memory loss...guess I do. Still I'm interested in a 'safe', but good pain reliever!
 
#30 ·
Pat - so I take it osteoporosis isn't involved in this ...

Man, I hope recovery gets on the racetrack -
 
#32 ·
I delayed trying that beefy, and took an Acetominophen/codeine/caffeine preparation this morning. Big mistake -- I was quite ill. Possibly there was an interaction with some of the drugs I have not listed here. I will certainly never take it again. As for the Tylenol Muscle -- i am sort of hoping I won't have to experiment again, though i think it is probably more appropriate and less disastrous as codeine.

tx
 
#33 ·
Chased by the Dragon:

I should probably state the drugs I am taking here:

Metformin
Glyclazide
Synthroid
Clonazepam
Lithium

My dreamy expectations of opioids straight out of literary descriptions and romantic novels, such as "The Opium Eater" have certainly evaporated in a haze of painful disappointment. That is, if codeine (8mg), which was part of the preparation I took yesterday is an opioid; The interaction or perhaps the ingredient codeine itself mixed with caffeine and acetaminophen left me with these effects: "axe headache" (a cleaver like pain straight down the middle of the back of the head), hypersalivation, chest discomfort, laboured breathing, palpitations, coughing, and increased headache upon taking some of the other daily meds; In short, it made me sick and any effect on pain was hardly more perceptible than just acetaminophen.
I am not discouraging people from taking it as my med soup or my reaction may be different (different enzymes or such). I read somewhere that a certain class of drugs, maybe codeine is in it, makes you void a lot of your other drugs, e.g. the lithium and that may change the blood level. But pharmacology really is a black art, of which I know little. That's my feedback on codeine - with my meds it was really terrible and I hope it's out my system today.

Gradually my pain is getting less, and that's a good thing. Waiting is a tedious thing though. BTW, the stress has not affected by blood glucose numbers. My average for the past 3 weeks is 5.3. I really want to impress my "teacher" at my next appointment. :)
 
#34 ·
Not to be impolite, but:

Well, if you are taking Lithium, then you must double check with your shrink about almost any drug because, as I remember, Lithium has to be used at a near toxic dose to be effective and any other drug might push you over the edge. That is why although Lithium is one of the best psycho drugs the dosage is critical and most shrinks stopped using it unless they had a very hard case and nothing else would work. So, are you "a very hard case "?

ColaJim
 
#35 ·
Hee hee, yes you're right about interaction check ColaJim. The pharmacist usually check though.

Am I a hard case? LOL - I've been more normal than normal for 30 yrs. now on lithium. And I wasn't so abnormal before either - questionable causes. Maybe it's good for any mood disorder.
 
#36 · (Edited)
A short break is sometimes a good analgesic.



Are you taking 400 mg of magnesium each day? Magnesium is your relaxation mineral, without it you will be unable to relax so none of the psyco-toxins you take will work right. And it is not in your vitamin/mineral tablet in sufficient quantity.



ColaJim
 
#39 ·
Insulation Tim,

Had i to do it again, i would have taken the Acetominophen/methocarbamol, but i was offered the codeine on someone's experience with pain. I think the pharmacist may not have known of the interaction with lithium, but with the many drugs i take, and throw in the organs--- like i said, "black arts".

I am slowly recovering from screwing up the equlibrium now and this "axe headache" has happened before, so i think the lithium may have gone up or down.

thank you for writing.
 
#40 ·
Hi,

I'm gradually coming out of the drug interaction bit by bit. I don't know if it was the codeine but I think so. I'm taking Metphormin, glyclazide, lithium, synthroid, and clonazepam. Ironically, my back pain got better much faster. If someone had examined me they may have said, no need to take more than a Tylenol a day. The adverse effects of the interaction seem to follow taking the drugs, but especially if the Met is close to the glyclazide and at first very much the lithium. It's complicated.

I have made an effort to keep my diet healthy and glucose numbers in the 5's and doing ok there. It's important for my test because I don't want to get any ACE's for example, which also gave me a bad interaction the last time I saw my dr. Dr;ugs.com has it a high level.

But all in all, I realize how fortunate we are, how awful some people have it in our world. I hope we can all help those in such distress. Aid is coming in too little too late for some.

Somalia famine: 'There is no longer any excuse for inaction' | World news | The Guardian
 
#41 ·
DAY 18 - brain almost entirely "clean" from Acetominiphen/Codeine/Caffeine interaction with Metphormin, Synthroid, Lithium, Clonazepam, and Glyclyzide (almost certainly the lithium). The heat made things a tad difficult, but on the other hand reduced appetite, and thus lowered the blood glucose numbers. Every cloud has a silver lining. :)
 
#43 ·
Ha! Blast from the past -- that was a cold. When listing the possibilities of diabetes causes, i forgot to mention that during the H1N1 and seasons flues, I also started taking "dextromethorphine". It was after those flues that I became diabetic -- if that has anything to do with it. The bottle did say not to give to diabetics,
 
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