Overcoming The Dawn Phenomenon - Page 3

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Diabetes Treatment As there is currently no cure for the chronic, Diabetes mellitus – the emphasis must be on treatment and management to avoid complications. Please use this section to discuss how you carefully control and manage your Diabetes. Please let us know what is and isn’t working for you. Feel free to discuss all areas of treatment and management of Diabetes including diet, exercise, weight loss, insulin usage, oral drugs and more.


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Overcoming The Dawn Phenomenon - Page 3


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Old 08-03-2016, 19:48   #21
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I was having problems with my morning/fasting BS creeping up from the low 100's to 110-120....I had changed nothing over the 2-3 months I saw this trend. So I experimented with my nightly injection of Lantus, went from 25u to 30u every night. Within 4-5 days I saw a drop back down into the low 100's...

Worked for me....but since my Lantus is slow acting is took a few days to show consistent results....

Good Luck

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Old 08-03-2016, 22:38   #22
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Still not up to speed on the mechanics of everything, so I'm sorry I can't comment there, but I am curious - how many days did you try at the 22 units?

Also, in another thread I just learned that maybe NPH peaks? Whereas Lantus has a steadier release? Although this doesn't do anything to help explain what's going on with you...sorry to digress!

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Old 08-04-2016, 18:43   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auntiekris View Post
Still not up to speed on the mechanics of everything, so I'm sorry I can't comment there, but I am curious - how many days did you try at the 22 units?

Also, in another thread I just learned that maybe NPH peaks? Whereas Lantus has a steadier release? Although this doesn't do anything to help explain what's going on with you...sorry to digress!
I've been at 22 units for 3 to 4 weeks. Prior to that I was at 20 units for even longer and during that time my DP was was about 10 points lower... hence my question.

I think I'll go up to 25 units for a short time and should that not provide the results I would like, I'll come back down to 20 units.

Strange disease!!!

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Old 08-05-2016, 07:04   #24
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OK... looking for someones prior experience with the use of BASAL insulin.

My morning DP numbers did range 110 to 115 on 20 units of Novolin NPH at 10:30 p.m. I bumped the units up to 22 units with the hope that it would cause my DP to drop below 110... instead it when up to a 120 to 125 range!

Question... does the liver react to addition insulin in the blood stream causing a release of glucose in an attempt to balance the insulin? I believe this might be true knowing the pancreas and liver attempt to work together... just not very well in our systems!

I'm debating adding an additional 2 units up to 24 units or going back down to 20 units. According to the 'Think Like a Pancreas' calculator, I should be injecting 25 units.

All comments, positive or negative, are most welcome!
Yes, if you get too low, your liver may dump glucose. Just like the DP does.

Are you taking anything to help with insulin resistance and/liver dumping? Metformin and/or Berberine could help. I take both.

I have struggled with major DP for many years. We're talking about a morning number in the 180s. Nothing seemed to help. I could wake and it would be 130, and then get to 180+ without eating. Then it would never come down.

Then I tried eating some carbs in the morning, and that helped me bring it down, but I was still getting a spike. But at least it came down. Then I added Prandin in the morning and that helped a lot. But over time the DP got stronger, or my insulin output got weaker.

I wanted to give my pancreas a break, so, eventually I swutched to Humalog in the morning to bring my high FBG down and combat the DP. I have gotten up to 24 units in the morning. I do not use insulin during the day.

If I wake up an hour earlier, my FBG was closer to normal, so I know my issue is DP. I was waking up with numbers in the 140s-160s, but it would still keep going up. the Humalog took that down and stopped the additional rise. About 2 months ago I added Berberine and it lowered my initial FBG a lot. I still use the Humalog, though. The Berberine not only helped my liver dumps, it has reduce my insulin resistance. I am now more stable during the day.

I have considered changing to Lantus (Kaiser only gives Lantus, not levimar) to try to stop even the short lived morning high, but I am trying to see if the Berberine / Humalog combo sustains. I also just spent a lot of time coming up with a working formula. I really don't want to try to figure out how much Lantus I need and do all that adjusting again.

So things do seem to be getting better - This morning my FBG was in the 90s, and before lunch it was in the 80s, and was 70 before dinner, so that is the desired result. But my FBG is still inconsistent.

BTW, I eat super low carb. 9 grams (net carbs) in the morning, and probably only around 5-10 grams total (if that) the rest of the day from associated veggies and sauces. So my issue is all liver dumps, not my carb intake.

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Last edited by Papa Diva; 08-05-2016 at 07:12.
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Old 08-05-2016, 19:01   #25
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I injected 25 units of NPH last night and had a 102 reading this morning... going in the right direction... but one night is not enough to tell!

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Old 08-05-2016, 20:52   #26
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Mine just miraculously regulated itself over the past year with LCHF. I started out with FG at 180 last year. It gradually went down. Over the past several months it is always under 100. Today it was 92.
If I pig out before going to sleep even if the meal is low carb, my fasting number will go up. Generally I try to not eat after 7 and my fasting number matches the number I went to sleep with.

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Old 08-06-2016, 17:07   #27
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Mine just miraculously regulated itself over the past year with LCHF. I started out with FG at 180 last year. It gradually went down. Over the past several months it is always under 100. Today it was 92.
If I pig out before going to sleep even if the meal is low carb, my fasting number will go up. Generally I try to not eat after 7 and my fasting number matches the number I went to sleep with.
I've been super low-carb for 15 years with around only 20 per day now. In the beginning it was none, and I was in ketosis for years. Then one day I started to get morning highs with no food or carbs. After a lot of trials, I determined I need some carbs in the morning to stimulate natural insulin release. After a few years, I needed some help and used Prandin along with some carbs to help stimulate the release. Then after a few years of that, it was coming up again, so I tried Humalog in the morning to give my pancreas a break. That is working, and now my insulin response thougout the day is much better. I guess the morning help is working.

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Last edited by Papa Diva; 08-06-2016 at 17:20.
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Old 08-06-2016, 17:24   #28
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I injected 25 units of NPH last night and had a 102 reading this morning... going in the right direction... but one night is not enough to tell!
What time did you inject, and what time in the morning did you test? NPH has a peaking action, so I'm curious on the timeline. Did you test in between injection and the morning at night? I have thought of trying NPH especially for that peak actually to combat my DP peak, but was concerned it would peak at the wrong time and I would go too low.

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Old 08-13-2016, 18:39   #29
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Quote:
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What time did you inject, and what time in the morning did you test? NPH has a peaking action, so I'm curious on the timeline. Did you test in between injection and the morning at night? I have thought of trying NPH especially for that peak actually to combat my DP peak, but was concerned it would peak at the wrong time and I would go too low.
I test about 6:30 a.m. and inject about 10:30 p.m. My numbers with 25 units has run between 102 and 125. I have not checked during the night but have had no symptoms of a hypo.

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Old 08-13-2016, 23:03   #30
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I'm still working on a theory that works consistently. My FBG is still higher than I want it (113-132), but increases in insulin just seems to limit the range rather than actually lower the bottom number. Why was it lower overall (but greater highs and lows) two weeks ago? Not sure. Could be less exercise since I haven't been to the YMCA in a couple of weeks. BUT, I am trying to get in similar exercise at home when I can't go anywhere.

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