Intermittent Fasting

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Intermittent Fasting


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Old 01-09-2018, 15:44   #1
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Default Intermittent Fasting

I've read that fasting can have the same affect on T2 insulin resistance as the more extreme versions of bariatric surgery. 85% of Bariatric patients with T2 experience a reversal in insulin resistance before they lose the weight. And, it is supposed to stay with them for a lifetime(not sure if that is true, certainly if you try hard enough to eat poorly....)

Anyway back to the topic.

After trying a few intermittent fasts of about 20 hours, I saw my blood glucose levels drop to CDA recommended levels for the first time in a few months AND whenever I returned to my regular diet, my readings remained good for a few days.

I'm excited, but I don't believe that I'm actually experiencing an improvement of insulin resistance. Instead, I think that I'm experiencing an "empty tank/full tank" response, if that makes any sense.

I did some more digging, and found that the IDM - Intensive Diabetes Managment program in Toronto will often start a patient on a 14 day fast then transition to an intermittent fasting routine.

I'm on day 13 of a 14 day fast. My blood glucose levels stabilized at 9 for the first week, and for the second week they have been at 7.

I can't actually test my insulin resistance but once I get my BG in the 5-7 range with diet/no meds/and Intermittent fasting, I think it is reasonable to say that my insulin resistance is being managed.

Anyway, I have a HUGE question for anyone reading this....I have had an extremely good experience with my fasting - ie absolutely no symptoms and I've been maintaining regular activity( 6000-10000 steps per day)....

Should I extend my fast to 21 days( 1 more week) before switching to an intermittent fasting routine?

Your thoughts on the matter will be appreciated.

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Old 01-09-2018, 16:25   #2
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People with bariatric surgery have been report to have a reversal of diabetes. Problem is reversal is defined as getting A1c below 6.5% by some. Not sure how the IDM program defines it. The CDA I am sure is similar to the ADA and say BG below 180 mg/dL (10.0 mmol/L) and that is above where studies have found that 140 mg/dL (7.8 mmol/L) can cause organ damage.

Maybe the issue is what your “regular diet” is. My last A1c was 5.4, but my diabetes isn’t reversed. All I have to do is eat a dab of carby stuff and my BG is back into the damage zone. I control my BG with diet, exercise, and a little bit of metformin. What is your regular diet?

OK, you can take my opinion and a dollar to McDonalds to get a cup of coffee and get creamer and sugar for free. Total Fasting for days is very dangerous, very low calorie diets (ie New Castle) for weeks is very risky, intermittent fasting can be beneficial if done right. I have not done the first two and have limited experience with intermittent fasting, but if I can get to and maintain my BG at safe levels without drugs then I see no reason to subject myself to doing it in a way that is not sustainable and potentially dangerous to my health.

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Old 01-09-2018, 22:02   #3
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my goal with this fast is to bring down my insulin levels so that an eat less/ do more ?ifestyle can be complimented with intermittent fasting. i would like my bg levels to stabilize below 10 so i can stop taking slow acting insulin. i have beem taking 40 units per day. i could just reduce it a lower dosage, ie something thay works for both eating and fasting cycles. It is still possible to get my insulin levels down but it will take more time.

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Old 01-10-2018, 13:53   #4
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Interesting about the intermittent fast as I do that every weekend - it's usually about a 20 hour fast and (keep in mind I'm a Type 1) my BGS tend to stabilize within the normal range and don't fluctuate (the intermittent fast when I first started it also assisted me in determining the ideal dosage for my Lantus.
But the big spin-off for me - I usually feel great during a fast.
The trick for me is not to go over board in eating once your finished the fast.

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Old 01-10-2018, 14:35   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NSDad126 View Post
my goal with this fast is to bring down my insulin levels so that an eat less/ do more ?ifestyle can be complimented with intermittent fasting. i would like my bg levels to stabilize below 10 so i can stop taking slow acting insulin. i have beem taking 40 units per day. i could just reduce it a lower dosage, ie something thay works for both eating and fasting cycles. It is still possible to get my insulin levels down but it will take more time.
If reducing the main thing that is converted to blood glucose from the foods we eat, carbohydrates, does not get your BG down to less than 8, you might want to be tested for antibodies associated with type 1 diabetes. LADA, a late onset type 1, is often misdiagnosed as type 2 early on. I mention below 8 because studies show organ damage occurs at BG levels above 7.8 mmol/L. In case you haven’t seen BloodSugar 101, you can read more about that here, look for the section about organ damage. There is much more about diabetes as well.

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Old 01-10-2018, 14:46   #6
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I'm on day 14 of my fast, going to be breaking my fast with tiny tiny meals. Technically, this is a 13 day fast.

I did some more digging and the IDM uses 14day fasts with T2 patients with severe conditions. I don't use fast acting insulin, so I don't think I would make it onto their list of severe.

I decided to end my fast because I found a section where they said that fasting 'rarely goes beyond 14 days'.

So where to from here?
I'm going to start a ketogenic diet for a few days. I'm really going to got to town on veggies while attempting to keep a LCHF ratio.
Then I'm going to roll into an intermittent fasting schedule of 42 hours, 2 or 3 times a week( still looking into this).

I'm told that beyond a 24-36 hour fast, the body transitions to burning protiens until it reaches ketosis. my goal is to stay in ketosis so this transition is much shorter.

Ultimately, I think the 'you are going to burn muscle' has its limitations and is likely exaggerated. If cave men stored fat, then burned muscle, they would have been a great big ball of fat from the multiple feast and famine cycles that they had to observe. I agree that we burn muscle but the truth is somewhere in the middle.

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Old 01-10-2018, 17:41   #7
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breakfast was: 1 egg, ground flax seed, and cheese.

lunch was: onion/bone broth soup and side salad of spinach,celery,bell pepper,carrot, radish, and for the bold flavor, blue cheese dressing, mmmmmmmmmmmm

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Old 01-10-2018, 19:07   #8
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Although I have seen intermittent fasting help some people, I have never found it to be effective for me. For me, the key to diabetes control has been a strict KETO lifestyle. I have tried fasting several times, but even with my current A1C down to 5.4, my fasting numbers remain my highest numbers of the day. If I don't eat (or drink a KETO coffee) in the morning my numbers will continue to rise until I do.

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Old 01-10-2018, 22:06   #9
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that is an interesting comment.

i wonder if you are experiencing dawn effect.

whenever i get it, i take 1 or 2 saltine crackers and it is enough carbs to stop the liver dump.

yeah, i can see how that would get frustrating if that happened while i was attempting a 20 hr fast. personally, i think de-fatting my liver and muscles would probably help prevent a liver dump or atleast give the glucose a place to go.

I only did 3 intermittent fasts before trying my 13 day fast. 2 were 20 hour and 1 was almost 72 hour. in all 3 cases, my glucose was better than eating an unhealthy diet. I havent acomplished a strict keto diet like yourself so i don't know for sure what will happen.

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Old 01-10-2018, 22:25   #10
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I tried IF (16/8) for a short period of time. It did lower my BG overall and my fasting (although, to be fair, I don't generally have a high fasting).

I found it difficult to stay with and after having to start taking a medication that made it imperative that I eat morning and evening, I gave it up.

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