Insulin injection versus beta-cell stimulating drugs - Page 3

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Insulin injection versus beta-cell stimulating drugs - Page 3


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Old 05-03-2012, 16:00   #21
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Now that I have horse in this race I think I will comment.

The reason given to me to take Amaryl was because a pill is easier than insulin injections. I don't understand why insulin is seen as a last resort to oral meds.

To me, insulin stimulating drugs are like me taking a car with 150,000 miles and bad compression and adding a turbo with loads of boost and flooring it. It is just a matter of time before the thing blows.

If I am insulin resistant, My issue is not that I need more insulin. I need to find a way to increase my sensitivity.

If I am insulin dependent due to loss of beta cell function it would seem that my pancreas is not capable of handling heavy loads.

Why, in either case, would an insulin stimulating drug be a benefit? I am really asking because I don't understand. Am I missing something?

Is taking insulin really as bad as the doctors keep making it seem? The last oral med I took is supposed to be the safest diabetic drug on the market yet it landed me in the ER. Why on earth can't I have insulin? It is safe enough to give diabetic pregnant mothers while all these oral meds are not so why can't I have it? It is already produced in the body so the body knows what to do with it so why is it frowned upon? I do not want to use it so I can eat carbs, I want it to lower my blood sugar. Why is that so bad?

I have lost all faith in doctors. I don't want to see another but unfortunately, I need them to fill scripts and order labs so my insurance will cover it.

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Old 05-03-2012, 16:12   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rudeboysti
Now that I have horse in this race I think I will comment.

The reason given to me to take Amaryl was because a pill is easier than insulin injections. I don't understand why insulin is seen as a last resort to oral meds.

To me, insulin stimulating drugs are like me taking a car with 150,000 miles and bad compression and adding a turbo with loads of boost and flooring it. It is just a matter of time before the thing blows.

If I am insulin resistant, My issue is not that I need more insulin. I need to find a way to increase my sensitivity.

If I am insulin dependent due to loss of beta cell function it would seem that my pancreas is not capable of handling heavy loads.

Why, in either case, would an insulin stimulating drug be a benefit? I am really asking because I don't understand. Am I missing something?

Is taking insulin really as bad as the doctors keep making it seem? The last oral med I took is supposed to be the safest diabetic drug on the market yet it landed me in the ER. Why on earth can't I have insulin? It is safe enough to give diabetic pregnant mothers while all these oral meds are not so why can't I have it? It is already produced in the body so the body knows what to do with it so why is it frowned upon? I do not want to use it so I can eat carbs, I want it to lower my blood sugar. Why is that so bad?

I have lost all faith in doctors. I don't want to see another but unfortunately, I need them to fill scripts and order labs so my insurance will cover it.
A pill IS easier than injections. At least in my opinion. Having to inject myself upwards of 6 times a day just for the insulin. That doesn't count the 6-8 for finger sticks. I wish I could take a pill two or three times a day and have the control I do with insulin, but I think those days are gone.

And from what I've read on the forum, there's as many different opinions among docs on how to treat and manage as there members of the forum. If we could just get docs to listen to us and prescribe according to what we need versus what some book or some CPA says we'd all be better.

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Old 05-03-2012, 19:25   #23
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Originally Posted by rudeboysti View Post
Is taking insulin really as bad as the doctors keep making it seem?
Not that there aren't other cases like yours, but I don't recall one where someone was having as hard a time getting insulin as you are, with a profile remotely similar to yours. I don't understand it either, but wonder if the bias against insulin over oral meds is really as institutional as what you've encountered.

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Old 05-03-2012, 19:59   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rudeboysti View Post
Now that I have horse in this race I think I will comment.

The reason given to me to take Amaryl was because a pill is easier than insulin injections. I don't understand why insulin is seen as a last resort to oral meds.

To me, insulin stimulating drugs are like me taking a car with 150,000 miles and bad compression and adding a turbo with loads of boost and flooring it. It is just a matter of time before the thing blows.

If I am insulin resistant, My issue is not that I need more insulin. I need to find a way to increase my sensitivity.

If I am insulin dependent due to loss of beta cell function it would seem that my pancreas is not capable of handling heavy loads.

Why, in either case, would an insulin stimulating drug be a benefit? I am really asking because I don't understand. Am I missing something?

Is taking insulin really as bad as the doctors keep making it seem? The last oral med I took is supposed to be the safest diabetic drug on the market yet it landed me in the ER. Why on earth can't I have insulin? It is safe enough to give diabetic pregnant mothers while all these oral meds are not so why can't I have it? It is already produced in the body so the body knows what to do with it so why is it frowned upon? I do not want to use it so I can eat carbs, I want it to lower my blood sugar. Why is that so bad?

I have lost all faith in doctors. I don't want to see another but unfortunately, I need them to fill scripts and order labs so my insurance will cover it.
I read a post once indicating that insulin and needles can be purchased over the counter without a prescription. I don't know much about insulin but I guess it was some kind of "basic" insulin as opposed to the newer fancier ones which require a prescription. If this is true, perhaps you could just go forward with or without the cooperation of a doctor.

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Old 05-03-2012, 20:00   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moon

Not that there aren't other cases like yours, but I don't recall one where someone was having as hard a time getting insulin as you are, with a profile remotely similar to yours. I don't understand it either, but wonder if the bias against insulin over oral meds is really as institutional as what you've encountered.
Am I wrong for thinking insulin would help me? If someone can tell me a good reason why, I would be happy to back off. I just can't find any good reason.

I don't want it because I think it would be cool. I would rather need nothing at all. I just don't want to die an early death from diabetes complications. I have already been told that my D has caused me to have neuropathy, optic nerve damage from glaucoma and periadontal disease. I want to keep those at bay as best I can. I don't want to kill my pancreas to do it and I don't want to spend anymore time in the hospital from lactic acidosis. Seems reasonable to me but I could be wrong.

I don't think these doctors understand me. I am the type who dives in head first and will stop at nothing to achieve my goals. I am not looking to feed my face with carbs and bolus for it. I wouldn't change a thing. Carbs are out of my life for good. I have seen the dark side of poor diabetes control and I refuse to let that happen to me. I just want the best control possible. Diet and exercise just isn't cutting it anymore. I don't know that I can put anymore into it. My wife already thinks I go overboard with my D control. My boss says I sound like a doctor when I am explaining my D to him. I tell him the best way to control D is to empower yourself with as much knowledge as possible.

Sometimes I wonder if I am being a drama queen as so many others have much worse control than I do. I just want the best control I can possibly have. I will not settle for good enough. I have a personal vendetta with D. I want to beat the snot out of it and will not be happy until I do. Anyone who knows me can tell you that I back down from nothing. Tell me I can't do something and I will devote myself to proving you wrong. I don't settle.

Sorry for all the whining. I am just so frustrated with these doctors. What I see is a violation of common sense. If what they told me made any sense I would leave it alone. They just don't seem to be using any logic.

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Old 05-03-2012, 20:20   #26
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rudeboysti, I don't see anything wrong with taking insulin. It's not a controlled stubstance and as has already been mentioned, some types of insulin can even be purchased without a prescription. I don't think there is an institutionalized bias against insulin use throughout the medical community, but perhaps that's the case in your area.

As I mentioned in this or another thread, the doctor who I trust the most suggested I begin insulin therapy right away. What was her logic for doing that? She said my body was no longer producing insulin, so we needed to give it insulin. She never suggested stimulating drugs that would fatigue my pancreas anymore. Of course, she diagnosed me as type 1 while my regular PCP diagnosed me as type 2.

There is a lot of fear associated with insulin and some doctors are partially to blame for that. In order to "motivate" some of their patients into adopting better lifestyle habits, they give them "if you don't do X then you're going to have to take insulin". As you said, making it sound like a punishment or a last resort.

As for taking a pill being easier that taking insulin, well I suppose there's no argument that it is. But, I think it depends on your personality type whether or not you feel taking insulin is a burdonsome chore. I was waiting for the shuttle bus today at the university, after having spent the day grading papers. I checked my BS and it was a little high (which I can't explain since I hadn't eaten... I guess stess). But I pulled out my Humalog KwikPen and injected a couple units. Total time? I'm not sure, maybe 90 seconds. Longer than taking a pill would have been? Sure. But it wasn't a big deal.

I'm not saying what I'm about to say because I think it applies to you, or even that I think it's reasonable, but maybe some doctors don't want to give insulin to type 2 DM patients, because they think the patients will abuse it, in the sense that they will eat massive amounts of high caloric and high carbohydrates foods, simply because they can offset the glycemic load with insulin. While that might be a reasonable hesitation, I don't think it should be applied unilaterally to every patient. Clearly, it's doubtful you'd use insulin for that purpose.

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Old 05-03-2012, 20:29   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by policebox
I'm not saying what I'm about to say because I think it applies to you, or even that I think it's reasonable, but maybe some doctors don't want to give insulin to type 2 DM patients, because they think the patients will abuse it, in the sense that they will eat massive amounts of high caloric and high carbohydrates foods, simply because they can offset the glycemic load with insulin. While that might be a reasonable hesitation, I don't think it should be applied unilaterally to every patient. Clearly, it's doubtful you'd use insulin for that purpose.
That's where I see the violation in common sense. She said she believes I am progressing to type 1. Common knowledge is that a type 1 has decreased beta cell function and should not be on insulin stimulating drugs. It is also common knowledge that they should be on insulin as soon as possible to preserve what beta cell function they have.

That is why I wonder if she is blowing smoke.

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Old 05-03-2012, 20:36   #28
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Originally Posted by rudeboysti View Post
That's where I see the violation in common sense. She said she believes I am progressing to type 1. Common knowledge is that a type 1 has decreased beta cell function and should not be on insulin stimulating drugs. It is also common knowledge that they should be on insulin as soon as possible to preserve what beta cell function they have.

That is why I wonder if she is blowing smoke.
I apologize if you've answered this question before. Her decision must be based upon some rationale. Have you asked her, point blank, to describe to you in detail her reasons for not wanting you to take insulin?

My thought is, if you wanto advocate a certain position for yourself, it's important to know clearly where your opponent stands. Otherwise, you might be arguing for or against factors which she isn't making her decision on. I think it's paramount to clearly understand her reasons and then either formulate an argument that might persuade her to reconsider (such as presenting her with new facts about your symptoms which she may be unaware) or realize you are at an impasse and need to take your business elsewhere.

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Old 05-03-2012, 20:48   #29
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I apologize if you've answered this question before. Her decision must be based upon some rationale. Have you asked her, point blank, to describe to you in detail her reasons for not wanting you to take insulin?

My thought is, if you wanto advocate a certain position for yourself, it's important to know clearly where your opponent stands. Otherwise, you might be arguing for or against factors which she isn't making her decision on. I think it's paramount to clearly understand her reasons and then either formulate an argument that might persuade her to reconsider (such as presenting her with new facts about your symptoms which she may be unaware) or realize you are at an impasse and need to take your business elsewhere.
The reason she gave me was that pills are easier. That with insulin, I would need to do injections twice a day and that's a pain. I wanted to discuss but a highly overweight elderly man fell from his rascal and hurt his leg. As he was yelling for help, she said to just try the amaryl for a month and we would look at the c peptide and antibodies next month as she rushed out to help him. She then told a nurse to get me setup with some neuropathy study and I was moved to the checkout lane.

I do think she may be keeping something from me but that just makes me angry. I am not a child. Tell me why I shouldn't have it. Don't sugar coat it. As I said earlier, if there is a good reason I will back off. Ease of use isn't good enough for me though.

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Old 05-03-2012, 20:53   #30
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That is why I wonder if she is blowing smoke.
I think she's simply a bad doctor. Like the last one you had. Fortunately you're in a big metro area and can find someone else. I don't think they all are against insulin, but do think you got very unlucky to hit two such bad ones. The next has =got= to be reasonable and brighter in their field.

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