Ketogenic diet on type 1

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Ketogenic diet on type 1


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Old 11-14-2012, 10:12   #1
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Default Ketogenic diet on type 1

Hello there.

Some of you ppl already know part of my history, for the others I,ll explain. I'm currently married to a type 1 diabetic person with several years of poor controlled glucose on blood. Well, I have several days providing low-carb meals to this person, this person still eats white bread and some sweet from time to time. I leave him to eat all this goodies because since he is type 1, I don,t want his body to enter in ketosis state, I must add that even if currently he is using his insulin shots on the same time every 24 hours, it could happen (since it had happened before ) that sometimes this person "forget" to put his insulin shot and after like 30 hours from his last shot he remember to use his insulin.

Well, I read somewhere that the minimum amount of net carbs a body can consumed before it start to develop ketones is 60 grams of carb daily, is this is true??? . I only want to decrease the amount of carbs my husband consumed to help his body to use less insulin from his shot, but I don,t want him to develop Diabetic ketoacidosis. Can someone confirm to me, which is the minimum amount of carbs the human body can receive without going into ketones.

Thanks in Advanced.

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Old 11-14-2012, 10:45   #2
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It's my understanding that Keto-Acidosis only develops where ketones are present along with high blood glucose.

Ketones in the system when blood glucose is at a normal level are harmless.

As regards the minimum carbohydrate needed per day - again, I can only say that my understanding is that the amount needed is ZERO.

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Old 11-14-2012, 11:01   #3
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Zero carbs per day (only drink water and nothing else?)

The case is, for example I provide lets said 20 grams of carb or 30 grams of carbs daily to him, so his body start to produce ketones because of the decrease in carbs...now..what happens if he "forget" to put his unique insulin shot any day or even decide to eat plenty of high carbs + fats someday (who knows) his blood glucose will spike up and he will have ketones in his body, I wouldn't want that in a type 1 diabetic. How can one avoid that to happen? (I read somewhere that if someone don,t eat less than 50 grams per day of carb, his body wont develop ketones).

I am not very clear how this subject works on type 1 diabetic ppl, since they don,t produce insulin like non diabetic and type 2, so literally type 1 don,t have any defense against ketones like we do.

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Old 11-14-2012, 11:09   #4
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You asked "how many carbs does the body need?". Nothing else.

My answer to that question is still zero and if you choose to adopt that for a diabetic the need to manage medication has to take that into account.

When someone requires insulin it is essential that the amount of carbohydrate in their food is factored into the dose admininstered. Low carb = low dose. High carb = high dose and likely to have a roller coaster peak and trough.

There is no simple answer if the person cannot be relied on to handle their medication correctly. In that case, someone else needs to keep control.

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Old 11-14-2012, 11:12   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corn_pops
Hello there.

Some of you ppl already know part of my history, for the others I,ll explain. I'm currently married to a type 1 diabetic person with several years of poor controlled glucose on blood. Well, I have several days providing low-carb meals to this person, this person still eats white bread and some sweet from time to time. I leave him to eat all this goodies because since he is type 1, I don,t want his body to enter in ketosis state, I must add that even if currently he is using his insulin shots on the same time every 24 hours, it could happen (since it had happened before ) that sometimes this person "forget" to put his insulin shot and after like 30 hours from his last shot he remember to use his insulin.

Well, I read somewhere that the minimum amount of net carbs a body can consumed before it start to develop ketones is 60 grams of carb daily, is this is true??? . I only want to decrease the amount of carbs my husband consumed to help his body to use less insulin from his shot, but I don,t want him to develop Diabetic ketoacidosis. Can someone confirm to me, which is the minimum amount of carbs the human body can receive without going into ketones.

Thanks in Advanced.
Hi corn_pops,

What you are reading about is a condition separate from a ketogenic diet. I am type 1 and follow a very low carb(ketogenic) diet.

When diabetics eat the wrong things and/or don't take our meds or take them incorrectly we can enter a state of diabetic keto-acidosis. DKA for short. It is caused by very high blood sugar. It can be dangerous and can kill us if not treated.

Eating a ketogenic(very low carb) diet can put your body into ketosis (not to be confused with DKA) in which our bodies are burning fat for energy instead of glucose.

I think I have read that your husband takes 1 shot per day which I am assuming is a long acting (basal) insulin. Has he been prescribed a short acting (bolus) insulin for meal times? I think that would help along with the low carb diet to get his blood sugar down. Have you considered an insulin pump (if it's available in your country)?

Sent from my iPhone using Diabetes

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Old 11-14-2012, 15:23   #6
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Try googling Ketosis vs. Diabetic Ketoacidosis ... they are NOT the same. Then consider whether you should be asking your question.

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Old 11-14-2012, 15:29   #7
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~~ corn pops ~~~

You are confusing two completely different conditions.

When a person has uncontrolled very high blood sugars, they can go into a condition called ketacidosis, which can be very dangerous and life-threatening. "Vomiting, dehydration, deep gasping breathing, confusion and occasionally coma are typical symptoms." Diabetic ketoacidosis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On the other hand, when people eat a diet very low in carbohydrates, and the body does not have enough glucose to meet its energy needs, the body will start to burn off the fat, creating ketones, which the brain and other organs can use as fuel instead of glucose. This is what we call, going into ketosis, or eating a ketogenic diet.

Due to the fact that ketones are involved in both conditions, there is a lot of confusion about this - in fact many dietitians and doctors hear the word "ketones" and are immediately alarmed, as the only condition they are aware of is the very serious ketacidosis, and they are unaware that having ketones in the urine as the result of a very low carb diet is actually a healthy condition.

Since your husband is Type 1 and on insulin, and unwilling to test his blood with a meter, you need to avoid both conditions. He has to have some carbs to work with his insulin dose. But you want to make sure he isn't eating a huge load of carbs that could put him into the high blood sugar complication of ketacidosis. But you also don't want his blood sugar to get so low that he becomes hypoglycemic, which is also dangerous.

You have been doing great providing him with delicious low carb meals that he is enjoying. My guess is that he is feeling a lot better too. More alert and more energetic.

Dr. Eenfelt's website is available in twenty languages, including Portugese and Spanish. The Spanish version is here: http://www.dietdoctor.com/wp-content...ncipiantes.pdf

Until your husband is willing to work with a doctor on fine-tuning his medications, and to test his blood glucose throughout the day to see just what affect his insulin and meals have on his blood glucose, there is little more you can do. But do keep up the good work. He really is lucky that you care so much.
~ Gretchen ~

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Old 11-14-2012, 15:46   #8
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[QUOTE=GretchenRS;128809Until your husband is willing to work with a doctor on fine-tuning his medications, and to test his blood glucose throughout the day to see just what affect his insulin and meals have on his blood glucose, there is little more you can do. But do keep up the good work. He really is lucky that you care so much.
~ Gretchen ~[/QUOTE]

I agree. You can only provide healthy low-carb meals for him. You can't make him take care of himself. It has to come from within him.

It is very hard, I know, to watch someone ignore their diabetes. My heart goes out to you.

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Old 11-14-2012, 15:48   #9
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Gretchen I disagree ... he does not have to any carbs to work with his insulin!

Our livers produce plenty of glucose from protein ... gluconeogenesis. The nice t hing is, it is usually a steady production, and easier on the system. Yes, some people have liver dumps, but it is generally MORE stable.

Dr. Richard Bernstein exemplifies this way of living and eating.

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Old 11-14-2012, 16:02   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxl View Post
... he does not have to any carbs to work with his insulin!
I'm sure that's right. However, in the case of the OPs husband, it's not likely he will willingly eat zero carbs.

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