Ketogenic diet while on drugs..

Go Back   The Diabetes Forum Support Community For Diabetics Online > Diabetes Forum Community > Diabetes

Diabetes This section of the forum can be used to discuss anything and everything to do with Diabetes. Please use this general Diabetes section for any comments or discussions that don't fit into the more specific forum categories below. Please also ensure that all posts and threads are on topic, about Diabetes.


Like Tree11Likes

Ketogenic diet while on drugs..


Closed Thread
 
Shared Thread Thread Tools
Old 01-14-2013, 19:07   #1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: mid-Atlantic, USA
Posts: 148

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 2010

161 likes received
50 likes given
Default Ketogenic diet while on drugs..

Hello,

I've been on Meformin (2000mg), and Glipizide (2.5) since August of 2010. I was given glipizide because my A1c was 7.0 and eating VLC didn't seem to make enough of a difference.

My A1c has wavered between 6.3 to 5.9 over the last 2+ years. Lately, my numbers have been rising to 120s-140s fasting, so I've decided to try out the ketogenic diet and attempt the 80/15/5 ratio. WITH the drugs, my numbers plunged to 80s and 90s almost overnight. However, with the plunge, I was getting dizzy and felt ill. It felt like a low, even though the reading was 93 at the time. But that scared me, and I decided to go without the glipizide this morning.

Today's numbers:

Wake-up - 106
After breakfast - 108
After lunch 137

That's a pretty high after lunch number. When on glipizide, my numbers would go down after lunch and definitely after dinner. But I am exhibiting the same higher numbers prior to taking glipizide.

So my question is this.. if you are doing the ketogenic diet, are you able to really stay off the meds and maintain good numbers or are meds are definitely necessary? I am being really cautious now because last night scared me. I am thinking of probably doing this for a week to see if the number shoot way up or if it maintains.

Thoughts??

(oh and what I ate.. Over the weekend, breakfast has been 2 eggs scrambled with 1T butter and a slice of cheese and bologna, lunch and dinner chicken soup. Today's breakfast was 2HB eggs with 1T mayo with coffee with both 1T heavy cream and 1T coconut oil, and lunch was curry chicken (drumstick and thigh) with sauce made from 1TB diced onions, coconut oil and coconut milk with curry powder spice)

Thanks!

__________________
Metformin, Lisinopril, Lantus 35 units (1/19/14 start)
DX 2/2010 - A1C =12, BG=299
7/2013 - A1c = 6.0
1/2014 - A1c = 6.7
4/2014 - A1c = 6.4
10/2014 - A1c = 6.1 (more to go!!)
5/2015 - A1c = 5.8
11/2014 - A1c = 6.3 (after 3 months of levothryoxine)
Current avgs: 105 (90 days)
Current diet: (optimal ketogenic 20g carb or less)
(uh, had to delete old values since sig only allows 10 lines..)

Last edited by peeka73; 01-14-2013 at 19:15. Reason: forgot to add coffee
peeka73 is offline  
Old 01-14-2013, 19:19   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: California, USA
Posts: 3,076

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 2009

4566 likes received
542 likes given
Default

Well, my thoughts were that I didn't want too many variables. I threw the Metformin in the trash on day 3 and started learning everything I could about diet, metabolism, etc. It is now 3 years and zero medications and all-normal blood sugar with no symptoms or problems of any kind. You can see my initial state in my signature.

Another thought for you that in the short term, even up to a year, readings of 180 or 200 are no real danger. The only way to really know if diet alone works is first of all establish what the best diet for controlling blood sugar is in your case and then give a GOOD test - at least 6 months to a year - before giving up.

If you scramble up diet, exercise and diet how will you ever know what actually worked? It will be MORE difficult to disassemble it all later on.

Also, diet is a lot of feedback and not very precise, so my feeling was that the only thing drugs would do is that I would just do enough with diet to get good numbers. That doesn't really give you the feedback you need or guide you to what can really be done with diet alone.

__________________
Salim Morgan, T2
66 Years
DX: 9/2009 A1C=10.7
A1C 2/2010: 6.7 (DX + 4 months)
A1C 5/2010: 6.0 (DX + 8 months)
A1C 8/2010: 5.7 (DX + 11 months)
A1C 11/2010: 5.1 (DX + 14 months)
A1C 9/2011: 5.6 (DX + 2 years)
A1C 7/2012: 5.5 (DX + 2 years 10 months)
A1C 1/2019: 5.5
Diet: Approximately C:10;P:15;F:75 (as % calories)
Exercise: Not much. Stairs at home & work.
NO MEDS, No Highs, No Lows
Grandkids: 22
smorgan is offline  
Old 01-14-2013, 20:14   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 558

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 2011

530 likes received
240 likes given
Default

I would cut down on the Glipizide and see where that puts you. As Smorgan suggested, higher numbers should be okay until you figure out how low you can go with just the Metformin and diet.

foxl and silvertiger like this.
Darbro is offline  
 
Old 01-15-2013, 14:19   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: mid-Atlantic, USA
Posts: 148

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 2010

161 likes received
50 likes given
Default

Thank you for your responses. I guess it will take some time for my system to adjust. Will see how it goes after a while. And it's good to know that some high numbers is not worrisome, so long as it is not consistent? Keeping that 80% fat is rather hard sometimes. But it is AMAZING how little hunger I feel. I have to remind myself to eat.

__________________
Metformin, Lisinopril, Lantus 35 units (1/19/14 start)
DX 2/2010 - A1C =12, BG=299
7/2013 - A1c = 6.0
1/2014 - A1c = 6.7
4/2014 - A1c = 6.4
10/2014 - A1c = 6.1 (more to go!!)
5/2015 - A1c = 5.8
11/2014 - A1c = 6.3 (after 3 months of levothryoxine)
Current avgs: 105 (90 days)
Current diet: (optimal ketogenic 20g carb or less)
(uh, had to delete old values since sig only allows 10 lines..)
peeka73 is offline  
Old 01-15-2013, 15:10   #5
MCS
WHAT, I got D
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: HOTSVILLE USA
Posts: 3,849

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 1565

3991 likes received
5218 likes given
Default

My thoughts are if the Glip was working you got on board insulin it just doesn't want to come out and play. There are other things that will help your body release insulin and slow down your liver. Dandelion Root Extract, Milk Thistle, Green Coffee Bean extract. When you eat your body is suppose to send out a signal from your gut GLP-1 that tells your pancreas to release insulin and for your liver to calm down on the glucose. Those supps will aid in that.

Shanny likes this.
__________________
Control is with Diet modification, exercise, supps.
A1C, Dxed 11, 5.6, 4.8, 4.6
MCS is offline  
Old 01-17-2013, 16:45   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: mid-Atlantic, USA
Posts: 148

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 2010

161 likes received
50 likes given
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MCS View Post
My thoughts are if the Glip was working you got on board insulin it just doesn't want to come out and play. There are other things that will help your body release insulin and slow down your liver. Dandelion Root Extract, Milk Thistle, Green Coffee Bean extract. When you eat your body is suppose to send out a signal from your gut GLP-1 that tells your pancreas to release insulin and for your liver to calm down on the glucose. Those supps will aid in that.
I will give your suggestions a try, thanks!!

Although, I am slightly worried since the numbers are slowly creeping up again. Wake up is at 114, have coffee with coconut oil (2T), plus heavy cream (1T), and then a 1 egg, egg salad with just 1T mayo about 2 hours later. At 1hr check, it is 152, then 2hr 136. The total carb count for breakfast is 2g of carb! Maybe my pancreas is just dead or barely functioning at this point?

Will keep at this for longer, but kinda worried about higher numbers. I guess it is to be expected since I am not forcing pancreas to squeeze out more insulin, but still very disconcerting.

__________________
Metformin, Lisinopril, Lantus 35 units (1/19/14 start)
DX 2/2010 - A1C =12, BG=299
7/2013 - A1c = 6.0
1/2014 - A1c = 6.7
4/2014 - A1c = 6.4
10/2014 - A1c = 6.1 (more to go!!)
5/2015 - A1c = 5.8
11/2014 - A1c = 6.3 (after 3 months of levothryoxine)
Current avgs: 105 (90 days)
Current diet: (optimal ketogenic 20g carb or less)
(uh, had to delete old values since sig only allows 10 lines..)
peeka73 is offline  
Old 01-17-2013, 16:53   #7
MCS
WHAT, I got D
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: HOTSVILLE USA
Posts: 3,849

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 1565

3991 likes received
5218 likes given
Default

I don't think your pancreas is dead its just not getting a strong signal to release insulin. If you like to experiment a bit with yourself try putting about 4grams of real sugar in your coffee and additional art sweetener. I drink a cup everyday with 4g of sugar, 4 packets of art sweetener. It provides me with a strong GLP-1 release, which leads to lower BG levels. Check your BG about 10-15 minutes after you drink the coffee, then again in about 30 minutes to see if its coming back down.



Quote:
Originally Posted by peeka73 View Post
I will give your suggestions a try, thanks!!

Although, I am slightly worried since the numbers are slowly creeping up again. Wake up is at 114, have coffee with coconut oil (2T), plus heavy cream (1T), and then a 1 egg, egg salad with just 1T mayo about 2 hours later. At 1hr check, it is 152, then 2hr 136. The total carb count for breakfast is 2g of carb! Maybe my pancreas is just dead or barely functioning at this point?

Will keep at this for longer, but kinda worried about higher numbers. I guess it is to be expected since I am not forcing pancreas to squeeze out more insulin, but still very disconcerting.

xhere likes this.
__________________
Control is with Diet modification, exercise, supps.
A1C, Dxed 11, 5.6, 4.8, 4.6
MCS is offline  
Old 01-17-2013, 18:59   #8
Senior Member
 
silvertiger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Posts: 3,861

Member Type
Type Pre
Diagnosed in 2011

4282 likes received
5061 likes given
Default

You know, going on insulin isn't the end of the world either and may be preferable to using a med that stresses the pancreas. In your place I'd keep the Metformin and go on low doses of insulin while staying low-carb, then see if I could reduce the insulin over time.

Shanny and Patdart like this.
__________________

View silvertiger's full Diabetes Forum profile here.
silvertiger is offline  
Old 01-20-2013, 16:48   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: mid-Atlantic, USA
Posts: 148

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 2010

161 likes received
50 likes given
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by silvertiger View Post
You know, going on insulin isn't the end of the world either and may be preferable to using a med that stresses the pancreas. In your place I'd keep the Metformin and go on low doses of insulin while staying low-carb, then see if I could reduce the insulin over time.
I asked my doc about possibly switching to insulin and was rejected. I don't think she is willing to switch it unless my numbers are bad.

__________________
Metformin, Lisinopril, Lantus 35 units (1/19/14 start)
DX 2/2010 - A1C =12, BG=299
7/2013 - A1c = 6.0
1/2014 - A1c = 6.7
4/2014 - A1c = 6.4
10/2014 - A1c = 6.1 (more to go!!)
5/2015 - A1c = 5.8
11/2014 - A1c = 6.3 (after 3 months of levothryoxine)
Current avgs: 105 (90 days)
Current diet: (optimal ketogenic 20g carb or less)
(uh, had to delete old values since sig only allows 10 lines..)
peeka73 is offline  
Old 01-20-2013, 18:46   #10
Inactive Member
 
David Burke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,318

Member Type
Type Undiagnosed
Diagnosed in None

5321 likes received
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peeka73

I asked my doc about possibly switching to insulin and was rejected. I don't think she is willing to switch it unless my numbers are bad.
Well remember its not your doc at risk for complications. We have to be our own strongest advocates when it comes to our care and treatment. If my old pcp knew even a quarter as much as I do about how my body works with diabetes I would have listened. But since he gave me textbook responses and treatment, well lets just say I'm glad he retired before we had those conversations.

You need to get your doc on board to what you consider a viable plan, or he better have good reasons why not because a foot hurts no matter whose backside it hits.

Sent from my iPhone

Shanny, moon and skypeace like this.
David Burke is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Using a Ketone Meter to do a Ketogenic Diet Daytona Diabetes Diet and Nutrition 641 08-17-2013 14:07
TKD Targeted Ketogenic Diet MCS Diabetes Diet and Nutrition 23 02-20-2013 15:59
Ketogenic diet on type 1 corn_pops Diabetes 21 11-16-2012 03:58
Nutrition and ketogenic diet VeeJay Diabetes 12 05-30-2012 03:51
Questions about ketogenic diet policebox Diabetes Diet and Nutrition 9 05-20-2012 03:29

LEGAL NOTICE
By using this Website, you agree to abide by our Terms and Conditions (the "Terms"). This notice does not replace our Terms, which you must read in full as they contain important information. You must not post any defamatory, unlawful or undesirable content, or any content copied from a third party, on the Website. You must not copy material from the Website except in accordance with the Terms. This Website gives users an opportunity to share information only and is not intended to contain any advice which you should rely upon. It does not replace the need to take professional or other advice. We have no liability to you or any other person in respect of any content on this Website.


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 13:37.




Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.