Low fat vegan/vegetarian diets

Go Back   The Diabetes Forum Support Community For Diabetics Online > Diabetes Forum Community > Diabetes

Diabetes This section of the forum can be used to discuss anything and everything to do with Diabetes. Please use this general Diabetes section for any comments or discussions that don't fit into the more specific forum categories below. Please also ensure that all posts and threads are on topic, about Diabetes.


Like Tree29Likes

Low fat vegan/vegetarian diets


Closed Thread
 
Shared Thread Thread Tools
Old 12-30-2013, 09:16   #1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 282

Member Type
Type Undiagnosed
Diagnosed in 0000

141 likes received
Default Low fat vegan/vegetarian diets

I am curious...why do some doctors advocate a whole foods vegetarian/vegan diet? I mean, are there people on these forums or other forums following that diet that have achieved hba1c's as low as some on here?

My thinking is that- maybe it may work for some type 2's (especially if overweight- ANY weight loss would probably help), but how can they claim these diets are healthier than LCHF for type 1's? If the type 1 is overweight, it may improve their weight- which would naturally improve insulin sensitivity. However, even if there was some possible adverse side effects from a LCHF diet (none that I've been able to see in anyone so far), a type one's main priority is blood sugar control. That would never be possible if I was to eat things like bananas and pasta like they suggest- even if it improved my insulin sensitivity. But the injected insulin would never be able to match to the foods. And add to that complications like gastroporesis, and you're in for a roller coaster ride of blood sugars.
How is it that this diet has been able to succeed in any way? Is it all about weight loss or does it actually improve bsls in some as well?

I only ask because I always see people that advocate these diets, that criticize LCHF approaches. Yet, they seem to "forget" that many following them achieve wonderful bsl control- and in the diabetic, without that, we will have poor health and consequences anyway.

foxl likes this.

Last edited by 50257; 12-30-2013 at 09:28.
50257 is offline  
Old 12-30-2013, 10:53   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 24,394

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 2009

23929 likes received
32255 likes given
Default

In a word, no. It may be possible - with great effort and grief - to achieve those blood levels, but their track record is poor, and LCHF makes it almost effortless by comparison.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pink_Tea View Post
a type one's main priority is blood sugar control.
Every diabetic's main priority is blood sugar control. I believe you have learned, along with the rest of us here, that eating carbohydrate raises blood sugar, which is what we all try to avoid, am I right? What else do we need to know? Nothing that I can think of.

What you've said here you know is true, so why be distracted by these others whose claims you can't verify . . . who may have agendas of their own and who play fast & loose with the truth? Are you aware that many vegans are more about animal rights than they are about healthy eating? It's true, and they spend billions of dollars pushing their agenda under the guise of curing diabetes and making other insupportable claims. Other parties are more about hating fat than healthy eating. If their food plans are so good, what's the point of dissing LCHF? Their plans should be able to sell themselves without tearing down ours.

Don't be misled. You already know what works - don't waste your time on that other crap.




foxl, mbuster, VeeJay and 2 others like this.
Shanny is offline  
Old 12-30-2013, 12:37   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Kansas City, MO USA
Posts: 5,911

Member Type
Type 1
Diagnosed in 2009 as Type 1.5

5212 likes received
9205 likes given
Default

I can report only my own experience with LFHC almost-vegan, vegetarian diet. I think I was running high blood sugars at the time, but cannot confirm it ....

Anyhow, I ate that way for maybe 1 yr, with exercise, lost weight ... and then began adding fats. Because I craved them. When I found out 15 yr or so later I was diabetic, and that way of eating was recommended to me, I rejected it wholesale. There was NO WAY I was eating that way for the rest of my life -- I simply could not have done it.

I have been eating HFLC for almost 5 yrs, and have not looked back. The end.

mstar likes this.
foxl is offline  
 
Old 12-30-2013, 13:00   #4
Senior Member
 
Shalynne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Posts: 5,399

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 2011 (on insulin)

6972 likes received
5382 likes given
Default

Please pardon a bit of general myth-busting ...

Glucose control is First Priority for all diabetics, no matter their Type ... or their weight.

Type 2 is not all about obesity. Not all Type 2s are obese, or even overweight. Weight loss, by itself, does not improve Type 2. Unexplained weight loss, in fact, is one symptom of undiagnosed diabetes -- again, no matter the Type.

Glucose control is a diabetic's only hope. We cannot get there by eating carbs and forsaking fat and protein. Period.

(As a side benefit, low-carb, high-fat [LCHF] also helps control weight ... hence, the popularity of Atkins and South Beach. For our purposes, however, glucose control is the prize. Once we've won that, we can fine-tune LCHF for greater weight loss, if needed or desirable.)

Shanny, foxl, mbuster and 2 others like this.
__________________
DX'd April Fool's Day, 2011 - T2
Female, 58, 5'7", 150 lbs.
A1C 13.5 -> 6.7 ->5.4 (1/31/14)
MEDS:
Humulin-N (basal) - Humalog (rapid bolus)
MAGIC POTIONS:
Biotin --10,000mcg (for hair health)
B-complex
One-A-Day Women's 50+ Advantage
KyoDophilus (pro-biotic)
LIFE SUPPORT:
Black Coffee - Unsweetened Iced Tea
Low-Carb, High-Fat Convert
Shalynne is offline  
Old 12-30-2013, 13:38   #5
skb
Diabetic
 
skb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Mumbai, INDIA
Posts: 2,680

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 2007

4080 likes received
2435 likes given
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pink_Tea View Post
I am curious...why do some doctors advocate a whole foods vegetarian/vegan diet?
Because that is what they have learnt & they never questioned their beliefs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pink_Tea View Post
My thinking is that- maybe it may work for some type 2's (especially if overweight- ANY weight loss would probably help), but how can they claim these diets are healthier than LCHF for type 1's?
Weight loss helps, but the real benefits of LCHF come from the change of fuel from glucose to ketones.

Besides, for T1s the thinking in the conventional medicine world is that since they rely on exogenous insulin, any foods can always be compensated by a few extra units.

Shanny, foxl, grammaB and 1 others like this.
__________________
A1c ~ 5.4
Follow LC/HF diet since Aug 2010
Control only with diet/exercise. No meds.

Blog - Metabolically Challenged
skb is offline  
Old 12-30-2013, 14:55   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 282

Member Type
Type Undiagnosed
Diagnosed in 0000

141 likes received
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanny View Post
In a word, no. It may be possible - with great effort and grief - to achieve those blood levels, but their track record is poor, and LCHF makes it almost effortless by comparison. Every diabetic's main priority is blood sugar control. I believe you have learned, along with the rest of us here, that eating carbohydrate raises blood sugar, which is what we all try to avoid, am I right? What else do we need to know? Nothing that I can think of.

What you've said here you know is true, so why be distracted by these others whose claims you can't verify . . . who may have agendas of their own and who play fast & loose with the truth? Are you aware that many vegans are more about animal rights than they are about healthy eating? It's true, and they spend billions of dollars pushing their agenda under the guise of curing diabetes and making other insupportable claims. Other parties are more about hating fat than healthy eating. If their food plans are so good, what's the point of dissing LCHF? Their plans should be able to sell themselves without tearing down ours.

Don't be misled. You already know what works - don't waste your time on that other crap.
Every diabetic's main priority is blood sugar control.

Sorry I used poor wording there. What I meant is that, indeed what you say, for all diabetics, blood sugar control is vital. But what I meant is that it would seem more likely only type 2's would be able to benefit from their diet plan- but only mainly due to weight loss- which shouldn't be the focus on a diabetic diet. Still, losing weight on those diets still (seems) to be difficult anyway due to numerous reasons. Therefore their often in-your-face nay-saying strikes me as odd. If it works, there isn't really a reason to diss it. Therefore, I was just curious if others know what ulterior motives they have.

Hmm, didn't mean to sound like I had lost confidence with the diet plan. I am more than confident now, after reading and educating myself more on this from Dr B's book, and seeing the proof from people here too.

"If their food plans are so good, what's the point of dissing LCHF? Their plans should be able to sell themselves without tearing down ours."

Lol, I couldn't of said it better myself. In fact did before I read that part of your reply. I thought as much it was more about animal rights agendas then health.

50257 is offline  
Old 12-30-2013, 15:00   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 282

Member Type
Type Undiagnosed
Diagnosed in 0000

141 likes received
Default

"Type 2 is not all about obesity. Not all Type 2s are obese, or even overweight. Weight loss, by itself, does not improve Type 2. Unexplained weight loss, in fact, is one symptom of undiagnosed diabetes -- again, no matter the Type."

Just to repeat, I used poor wording. I know type 2 is not necessarily caused/triggered by obesity, and that not all type 2's are obese. The causes are varied. And I know control is vital for all diabetics. I just meant the only benefit that could possibly be gained from such a diet is possible weight loss which would indirectly improve insulin sensitivity- but that doesn't take into account that bsls will most likely run higher than they should really be.

50257 is offline  
Old 12-30-2013, 15:05   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 282

Member Type
Type Undiagnosed
Diagnosed in 0000

141 likes received
Default

Perhaps the real question is: is it just ignorant "conventional wisdom" that drives many nay-sayers, or is it that there are actually financial gains, political agendas and such that lead many to discourage against it. My guess: both?

I remember reading in a post here, someone said that the ADA is sponsored by the agriculture industries. That does seem awfully...suspicious...I'm interested in reading more about this type of thing (hidden agendas etc), hence my post So if anyone has any interesting bits of info or links on this, would be much interested.

50257 is offline  
Old 12-30-2013, 15:07   #9
Moderator
 
mbuster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: SW Arkansas
Posts: 9,117

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in Feb. 2012

11040 likes received
6206 likes given
Default

I've started taking seal oil just to piss off the PETA people. Need to update my signature.

Shanny and walkerwally1 like this.
__________________
Think I've had this since 2003. Told I was Type 2 lean on 2/13/12.
a1c 8.8 (8/2011) 5.4 (10/2018)
TC 206 LDL 102 HDL 85 TG 96 (10/2018)
Supplemental vitamins and electrolytes
64 YY Love the LCHF diet. The cheese goes well with my whine

updated 10/31/19
mbuster is offline  
Old 12-30-2013, 15:11   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 282

Member Type
Type Undiagnosed
Diagnosed in 0000

141 likes received
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbuster View Post
I've started taking seal oil just to piss off the PETA people. Need to update my signature.
LOL. That's just mean mbuster

Poor little seals

50257 is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Do Low-Fat Diets Actually Work? A Critical Look kantim Diabetes Diet and Nutrition 1 06-30-2013 17:54
For the people on LCHF diets, how much fat do you eat for your meals? bluefitness Diabetes Diet and Nutrition 12 04-29-2013 08:10
Anyone Here A Vegan or Vegetarian? bigrosiegreenbaum Diabetes Diet and Nutrition 20 12-07-2011 04:56
Study on Saturated Fat in Low Carb Diets SerotoninSurfer Diabetes Diet and Nutrition 2 11-22-2011 20:27
Low Carb vs. Low Fat Diets HiThere Diabetes Diet and Nutrition 10 09-25-2010 17:52

LEGAL NOTICE
By using this Website, you agree to abide by our Terms and Conditions (the "Terms"). This notice does not replace our Terms, which you must read in full as they contain important information. You must not post any defamatory, unlawful or undesirable content, or any content copied from a third party, on the Website. You must not copy material from the Website except in accordance with the Terms. This Website gives users an opportunity to share information only and is not intended to contain any advice which you should rely upon. It does not replace the need to take professional or other advice. We have no liability to you or any other person in respect of any content on this Website.


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 21:11.




Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.