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NMR Testing - Page 2


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Old 10-25-2014, 12:33   #11
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Thanks for the article!

New home-base, new doctor. I meet her for the first time in a few weeks. I wonder if I am going to impress her when I ask if she provides the NMR test? Or is she going to depress me by replying, no - what is that?
This is not the usual test that doctors' offices perform. They usually have to either send it to a specialist lab, or (as in my case) send you to a hospital lab for it.

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Old 10-25-2014, 14:54   #12
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Originally Posted by gotsomeold View Post
Thanks for the article!

New home-base, new doctor. I meet her for the first time in a few weeks. I wonder if I am going to impress her when I ask if she provides the NMR test? Or is she going to depress me by replying, no - what is that?
Google is not the easiest of tools when searching for relevant information. It doesn't use context, other than popularity, to produce results. What I keep running into is a really popular response "Cholesterol doesn’t cause heart disease". This is true, I guess, in a specific context. My assumption is that this statement can be true when measuring LDL-C and then attempting to use high cholesterol concentrations to predict heart disease. A more accurate statement is high LDL-C using Friedewald calculation is not a good predictor for undiagnosed heart disease. It is a dangerous statement when applied to someone like me who already has heart disease.

The discussion to be had with my doctor, I think, is to stop using LDL-C and HDLC-C as a primary tool to gauge my health. I've been told at every blood test review that my cholesterol is fine. Right. CVD is still an ongoing real concern so we need to have different testing.

As of May this year I use low carb to manage insulin sensitivity. Unfortunately the guidance wrt managing fat is overly broad and pushes me towards a diet composition that I already know increases cardiovascular risk. Actually my real concern is cerebral arteries. I need a metric that best allows me to choose the appropriate level and composition of dietary fat and facilitates management of both cholesterol risk and risk due to insulin sensitivity.

My goal is to have the doctors to use their expertise to get me the information I require to make good lifestyle decisions. Based on the understanding I have right now NMR is the best diagnostic tool for the job.

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Old 10-25-2014, 15:43   #13
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Try to keep in mind that dietary cholesterol contributes only about 10 - 15% to serum cholesterol. Your body itself is making up the remaining 85 - 90%. So as ZoŽ Harcombe says, "The body makes cholesterol. I worry about a number of things, but I donít worry that my body is trying to kill me."




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Old 10-25-2014, 15:50   #14
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Sugar,

If you're looking for detailed search engine geared more towards scholarly information, such as research, studies, etc., try google scholar. It might be more helpful.

Sent from my iPhone

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Old 10-27-2014, 07:14   #15
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I had an Apo-B test last month along with the standard lipid profile (ldl, hdl, etc). Unfortunately my LDL doubled since last year (beore LCHF) and my Apo-B, which reflects LDL-P number was 118, or very high risk acording to the Berkeley Heart Lab range (I posted about all of this in another thread). Anyway, my research has taught me that high particle number is a problem no matter the size and I am trying to bring it down. So far I have increased my soluble fiber intake (supposed to help clear cholesterol from the blood) and am trying to lower my saturated fat intake while continuing to eat other fats without restriction. It is hard and frustrating to get my BG down only to see my lipids get out of balance. I feel like I'm playing poor health whack-a-mole! But, it's good to know so I can work at it. In mid-December I will be tested again and hope that my efforts are bringing that particle number down.
By the way my average fasting BG is 95 and I eat low enough carb that I never get a reading over 106.

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Old 10-27-2014, 07:53   #16
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The Apo-B is a structural protein present on every non-HDL lipoprotein. Each of these has one Apo-B as opposed to Apo-A1 which can be 4-5 per HDL particle. While I agree that particle number presents a problem irrespective of size, it must be noted that lipids take a much longer time to respond to LCHF and there could be other reasons for a high LDL number. One of them is weight loss, another is whacky thyroid hormones, not doing their job in helping the LDL receptors in the liver, which are supposed to clear the returning LDL. There could be several other reasons for elevated LDL. I've even read somewhere that LDL plays a part in the auto immune system and has a benign role there.

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Old 10-27-2014, 09:00   #17
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I am very glad to be in process of learning about Apo-b and LDL-P. They help explain why, years ago, on April 17 my DH's doctor told him, "Your cholesterol is perfect! Keep doing what you are doing!". (This to a 3 pack a day, 70 pounds overweight, non-exerciser.) And on April 22 I barely got him to the ER in time to survive the heart attack.

What I do not understand yet is, are Apo-b/LDL-P purely functions of diet (taking us back to the diet/heart health theory)? Or are increasing particle numbers a sign that something in the body is not functioning optimally? (Like those wacky thyroid hormones.)

Cause and effect really are difficult to differentiate in something as complex as the human body.

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Old 10-27-2014, 09:52   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotsomeold View Post
What I do not understand yet is, are Apo-b/LDL-P purely functions of diet (taking us back to the diet/heart health theory)? Or are increasing particle numbers a sign that something in the body is not functioning optimally? (Like those wacky thyroid hormones.)
Surely diet affects everything that happens within the body, and therefore the circulating cholesterol is no exception to that. The question is, do those numbers convey anything. As in the case of your husband, you've seen that they do not. The statin industry has kept the lipid tests alive. Even doctors like Thomas Dayspring are firm believers in statins when required. The pathway by which these drugs reduce the cholesterol, leads me have serious doubt about efficacy. High particle numbers certainly indicate something amiss somewhere else. Treating the number itself might not be the best remedy. Identifying the cause is a monumental doctor/patient task which doctors do not have time or inclination for, and patients lack the patience.

Just my 2 bits.

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Old 10-27-2014, 11:18   #19
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I think their is a ratio to be concerned with in regards to Apo-B and that is to Apo-A1, similar to Trig/HDL/ The lower the value, the less the concern. I'll have to look that back up when I get a couple of days off.

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Old 10-27-2014, 11:21   #20
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I think their is a ratio to be concerned with in regards to Apo-B and that is to Apo-A1, similar to Trig/HDL/ The lower the value, the less the concern. I'll have to look that back up when I get a couple of days off.
ApoB/ApoA1 should be below 1.0 and yes, the lower the better.
Obviously, if the ApoA1 number is higher than the ApoB then you are better off. ApoA1 is representative of your HDL levels, and the ApoB of your non-HDL levels.

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