NMR Testing - Page 3

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NMR Testing - Page 3


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Old 10-28-2014, 17:40   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VeeJay View Post
This is not the usual test that doctors' offices perform. They usually have to either send it to a specialist lab, or (as in my case) send you to a hospital lab for it.
Actually a few years ago the lab that developed the NMR has allowed LabCorp to do this type of testing.

But you are right, it is not performed at the doc office (thank goodness).

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Old 10-28-2014, 20:16   #22
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Originally Posted by SugarWeasel View Post
I did a bit of digging to better understand the implications of high LDL-P and LCHF diet wrt cholesterol hypersysnthesis. Here is an opinion from Thomas Dayspring. The discussion title suggests Dayspring's focus was weight loss but he also addresses the real issue, which for me, is using LCHF to improve insulin sensitivity.

Glad to see to see a detailed analysis and that he doesn't suggest anyone abandon LCHF. Instead he suggests the lipid equivalent of "eat according to your meter".

TL;DR Can LCHF worsen lipids? Yes. Can a human last long with atherogenic lipid concentrations above the 80th percentile population cut point? Probably not.

No one should be shocked that substituting saturated fat for carbohydrates to improve insulin sensitivity can lead to cholesterol hypersysnthesis.

Numerous studies have shown that high risk (80th percentile population cut points) LDL biomarker levels are:

LDL-C > 160 mg/dL
LDL-P > 1600 nmol/L
ApoB > 120 mg/dl

Can a human last long with atherogenic lipid concentrations above the 80th percentile population cut point? It seems for a small percentage of people that is true, but using existing trial evidence (which looked at folks on no specific diets or standard AHA low fat, low cholesterol type diets) they are rare exceptions, not the rule.

Dietary advice was to cut back on saturated fat and use more monounsaturated fatty acids (MUFA) and polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) without increasing carbs.

Lipidaholics Anonymous Case 291 Can losing weight worsen lipids?
http://www.lecturepad.org/dayspring/...icsCase291.pdf
I don't know enough about the second and third numbers, but people with LDL > 160 "won't last long"?! I think that's totally bonkers. I don't know my "particle count", but my LDL has always been right around 160. High-fat eating moved my TG from 158 to 55 and my HDL from 34 to 65, but LDL didn't budge. I don't believe my LDL has changed much in 40 years. I had the VAP and it came back all "large" particles. Even my lab reports rate my CVD risk in the lowest category.

Anyway, it was interesting until he said this:

Quote:
Statins
are not only among the most effective drugs ever created (have saved more lives than anything but antibiotics and vaccines) but are also among the safest.
I'm pretty sure that is a ludicrous statement and the actual evidence says quite the contrary.

I believe that ketogenic folks ARE an exception and the key to that is right there in his article. The patient being discussed was eating high carb (OK, they called it "moderate" but high to me) AND high fat. Excess ketones can end up being used for hyperproduction of cholesterol. They should be used to make ATP (energy), but if there's ample glucose for energy since this diet is rich in glucose AND fatty acids, then more getting used to make cholesterol makes sense.

Anyway, he seems way to bought into lots of myths which if I'm not mistaken later science has debunked. EVERYTHING he says about this or that measure and CVD risk is ALL just association (or "correlation") as he pretty clearly states.

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Old 10-29-2014, 00:32   #23
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Your skepticism is warranted and appreciated. Taking a single metric in isolation and trying to intervene would be silly. I don't believe that that is what is being done in this particular case study. Agree with you that the hyperbole weakens the overall impact of the analysis.

My personal issue is that triglyceride, LDL-C, and HDL-C numbers are "normal" and yet I have heart disease. My family doctor has only cautioned of low HDL-C on a single test, however my results were therapeutic and therefore did not require intervention. As a diagnostic tool these measurements, on their own, don't appear to be helping me or my family doctor improve my health. I don't know if there are any improvements to be had.

In my case I think analysis of LDL-P, and possibly LDL particle size, is worth a look. If my numbers are above the 80th percentile population you can bet I will be wanting more answers and to make corrections. I gain and lose weight perpetually so hopefully that does not result in chronic hyperproduction of cholesterol. Right now the only worry I have is the amount of saturated fat in my diet. Until I have evidence of specific problems I will continue to stay the course and to improve my LCHF MOE.

When it comes to statins I don't suffer from side effects and there is documented benefit for their use in my situation. My dosage is small so I have no problem un-medicating later for comparison after establishing a good baseline.

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