Forks over knives? - Page 2

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Forks over knives? - Page 2


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Old 09-23-2011, 06:15   #11
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On top of everything else, I have yet to see any actual EVIDENCE that this diet does much good for diabetics. Has anyone? The only thing I've seen published was one short study of just a few people who got their A1C down from an average of 8.3 to an average of 7.1 by the end of the study. Am I supposed to be impressed? Anyone here satisfied (let alone "reversed") with an A1C of 7.1?! Some people are diagnosed with less than that.

On my unabashedly carnivorous (sure, I'm all for more ethical practices, but that's not going to stop me from eating what I need), very high-fat and low carb diet, my A1C went from 10.7 to 5.1 in a little over a year. And, it took me over half of that year to figure the diet out, so really only about half a year. No contest.
It's sort of a recurring theme: people pop up to tout diabetic "cures" and "reverses," even as they report still-diabetic glucose levels.

Since most folks don't know what normal levels are, and some docs urge us to accept high levels, it works! (Here, however, not so much.)

I guess this should be our standard question to all miracle marketers: Where's your glucose? (And can you back up that claim?)

I have deep ethical concerns, and try to buy responsibly. But I also believe that, since we evolved as omnivores, it only makes sense that some metabolisms can handle vegetarianism/veganism/raw, while some must cut down or eliminate animal protein, while still others simply cannot forgo animal protein.

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Old 09-23-2011, 07:29   #12
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Thanks for all your input on this. I personally am a carnivore. And up till 3 weeks ago I wouldn't eat anything grown except potatoes. My dad is/was the same way. Once he started telling me about this I was leery of it then as a started reading the book I was dumbfounded! There is no way I could ever give up my meat! Much less any animal product! I like most of you believe that diabetes can be controlled but reversing?? To me reversing something is undoing what has already been done. And damage can't be undone! Just repaired. I just can't get my dad to understand that reversing just isn't possible. BUT he's actually taking steps to better his bg levels so I don't want to screw that up. He's been type 2 for almost 3 years and just now changing his ways. I just don't want him to think that he's going to "cure" himself by following this movie and book.

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Old 09-23-2011, 13:13   #13
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Besides which, those yahoos surely never ate a steak you could cut with a fork, or they'd forsake their vegan (PETA) ways in a New York minute!
Then there is Dr Neal Barnard -- who also pushes a vegan agenda while camouflaging it as health science (for example as the founder and president of the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine)... like I said above: if you choose to be vegan/vegetarian for your own reasons I can respect that BUT if you want to promote veganism please be up front about it!

Anyhow you may be interested that he grew up on his family's (Grandfathers?) cattle ranch, not becoming a vegan until his early 20s. So his tall good looks are not a product of the lifestyle he now promotes... although I might add that last time I saw him on PBS peddling his diet as the healthy solution to everything, he looked to me more like a walking cadaver than an advertisement for an healthy way of life.

Sorry but I just can't resist this clip from Futurama...


or this one from The Simpsons...


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Old 09-27-2011, 20:30   #14
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Denise Minger has done her usual very thorough job of re-examining the science presented in this film...

“Forks Over Knives”: Is the Science Legit? (A Review and Critique)...

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Old 09-28-2011, 02:41   #15
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Besides which, those yahoos surely never ate a steak you could cut with a fork, or they'd forsake their vegan (PETA) ways in a New York minute!
Shanny, what movie is being discussed in this thread? I couldn't find a name or a link in this thread so far. Or is the name of the movie "Forks over knives?" Or is that some phrase meaning something more than forks and knives? I never use knives for eating. Infrequently I might use a spoon or a fork. It is my freshly washed right hand that I mostly use for eating, so pardon me for my ignorance of any significance of "forks over knives."

I remember having eaten steak, chicken, beef, lamb and fish for a brief period during my late teens as a rebellion against tradition. I don't know if the steak I ate then could be cut with a fork because we never used forks then. The lamb I ate did not come to haunt me in my dreams as it did in the case of Mahatma Gandhi. More than ethical reasons, it is the taste and texture of the stuff that dissuaded me from continuing the experiment in rebellion beyond my teen years. Many years later, when I came to Canada, I tried to eat the aforementioned stuff once more. To me, the stuff tasted worse than what I remembered from my late teen years because not enough spices were added to mask the real taste and smell of the stuff.

This "yahoo" is not inclined to forsake his vegetarian (and of course PETA) ways in a New York minute for any steak that is to be cut with a fork, knife or a even a power saw.

Regards,
Rad

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Old 09-28-2011, 03:02   #16
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I had a little trouble with that the first minute or two also, Rad. The name of the movie is Forks Over Knives. And I misunderstood the metaphor too - apparently the fork represents food, and the knife is intended to represent medicine, as in scalpel. So my tender steak which could be cut with a fork was totally irrelevant.

The yahoos to whom I refer are the ones who fly under false colors. These are not honest vegetarians such as yourself & foxl, but vegans touting a political agenda as long as your arm. Yet they carefully conceal the term "vegan", instead substituting "plant-based diet". I'm in favor of people eating whatever they please for whatever reasons they please, and hopefully it doesn't compromise they good health, but I am outraged by people who purport to be one thing when they are in reality promoting something altogether different. I believe the ones who have made this movie are not true believers in either veganism or vegetarianism, but are in fact, interested in the power & the glory and above all, the money to be made.

And I'm heartily sorry to have stepped on your toes, my friend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rad Warrier View Post
Shanny, what movie is being discussed in this thread? I couldn't find a name or a link in this thread so far. Or is the name of the movie "Forks over knives?" Or is that some phrase meaning something more than forks and knives? I never use knives for eating. Infrequently I might use a spoon or a fork. It is my freshly washed right hand that I mostly use for eating, so pardon me for my ignorance of any significance of "forks over knives."

I remember having eaten steak, chicken, beef, lamb and fish for a brief period during my late teens as a rebellion against tradition. I don't know if the steak I ate then could be cut with a fork because we never used forks then. The lamb I ate did not come to haunt me in my dreams as it did in the case of Mahatma Gandhi. More than ethical reasons, it is the taste and texture of the stuff that dissuaded me from continuing the experiment in rebellion beyond my teen years. Many years later, when I came to Canada, I tried to eat the aforementioned stuff once more. To me, the stuff tasted worse than what I remembered from my late teen years because not enough spices were added to mask the real taste and smell of the stuff.

This "yahoo" is not inclined to forsake his vegetarian (and of course PETA) ways in a New York minute for any steak that is to be cut with a fork, knife or a even a power saw.

Regards,
Rad



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Old 09-28-2011, 03:54   #17
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I had a little trouble with that the first minute or two also, Rad. The name of the movie is Forks Over Knives. And I misunderstood the metaphor too - apparently the fork represents food, and the knife is intended to represent medicine, as in scalpel. So my tender steak which could be cut with a fork was totally irrelevant.

The yahoos to whom I refer are the ones who fly under false colors. These are not honest vegetarians such as yourself & foxl, but vegans touting a political agenda as long as your arm. Yet they carefully conceal the term "vegan", instead substituting "plant-based diet". I'm in favor of people eating whatever they please for whatever reasons they please, and hopefully it doesn't compromise they good health, but I am outraged by people who purport to be one thing when they are in reality promoting something altogether different. I believe the ones who have made this movie are not true believers in either veganism or vegetarianism, but are in fact, interested in the power & the glory and above all, the money to be made.

And I'm heartily sorry to have stepped on your toes, my friend.
Shanny, you haven't stepped on my toes - you can never offend me because I very much like your open and forthright style. And I respect you for your perceptive attitude and your rational mind.

Regards,
Rad

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Old 09-28-2011, 14:39   #18
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RAD, if you support PETA, did you know they oppose Trap, Neuter, and Release of feral cats, claiming the lifestyle is "too harsh" for the cats? (as opposed to, say, KILLING them? or perhaps letting them reproduce at their biological rate?).

This is a VERY practical solution to which we have turned, for our neighborhood. My husband has TNR'd altogether 17 cats, many of whom have calmed down (sexually) and found caretaker households! I find PETA to be a few bricks shy of a load.

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Old 09-28-2011, 18:00   #19
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Originally Posted by Rad Warrier View Post
Shanny, you haven't stepped on my toes - you can never offend me because I very much like your open and forthright style. And I respect you for your perceptive attitude and your rational mind.

Regards,
Rad
<blush> Thank you, Rad.




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Old 10-01-2011, 05:17   #20
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This "yahoo" is not inclined to forsake his vegetarian (and of course PETA) ways in a New York minute for any steak that is to be cut with a fork, knife or a even a power saw.
Enjoyed that.

I'm a vegetarian too, but it is more of a handicap with diabetes than it is a cure. A vegetarian diet is naturally a high carb diet. (sigh)

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