Forks over knives?

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Forks over knives?


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Old 09-22-2011, 18:45   #1
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Default Forks over knives?

My dad who is also type 2 has become obsessed with this movie/diet. He loaned me a book by one of the Dr's. Has anyone else watched or used this to help "reverse" diabetes? I don't believe it's possible but I'm also curious about it.

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Old 09-22-2011, 18:57   #2
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The physician who is interning with my rheumatologist recommended I read this just last week, saying he thought I'd find it interesting. Well maybe - but I'm white-knuckling my knife and not inclined to give it up, so might wait a while ...

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Old 09-22-2011, 19:16   #3
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So it is about veganism in another guise.

I am not too thrilled with that. I am a low-carb, ethical vegetarian (meaning I have not eaten meat for 38 yrs because I do not care for industry practices) who since becoming diabetic has relied increasingly on eggs and dairy fat to maintain my health.

I have antibodies, I really cannot swear up and down how I got to this state, but I do know I was eating a lot of carbs, and that those same "healthy" starches -- beans, lentils, whole grains -- spike me sky-high, now.

I also have found that I have had to supplement very high doses of vitamin D in order to get into the optimal range -- quite possibly due to decreased absorption from low fat consumption.

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Old 09-22-2011, 19:26   #4
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I tried to watch this movie the other week -- I really do try to be open to all sides of any discussion -- but I just couldn't stomach it... maybe another time.

From what I saw so far it presents a vegan/vegetarian diet as the answer to the issues of the (SAD) Western Diet -- they quite rightly show the harm being caused by refined/processed/packaged foods but along the way they conflate that with meat in a sneaky way.

They start off in very general terms about the problem but once they get into the solution it is all about Caldwell Esselstyn MD and T. Colin Campbell PhD

T. Colin Campbell is famous for his China Study which was thoroughly debunked by Denise Minger...The China Study: A Formal Analysis and Response Raw Food SOS: Troubleshooting on the Raw Food Diet

I don't have any personal issue with a vegan or vegetarian approach if that is your choice -- for me it would be a lot more work to and not as enjoyable -- but I baulk at any suggestion that it is somehow the best way for everyone or that it will solve the World's problems with hunger etc...

The funny thing is that I am just as much against factory farming as the makers of this movie, but they want to put me on a lower moral standing because I choose to eat meat... I just prefer my meat to have lived an healthy life, outdoors in the sun.

In terms of Type 2 Diabetes I'd suggest that ANY carefully considered diet is likely be far superior to the SAD... at least in the short term.

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Old 09-23-2011, 02:16   #5
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I really do not believe that once you are a diabetic you can actually "reverse" diabetes. I believe you can live a life free of meds and insulin with careful control over your diet and exercise, but reverse? I don't think so. I was gestationally diabetic with my first pregnancy, and then the diabetes went away after birth, but showed up again with second pregnancy. I don't think it actually disappeared or went away after the second one, but was not as bad as it became in later years. Now I'm full blown and I don't think that if I get my numbers to a really great level that I will EVER be able to go back to eating high carbs or sugar without it rearing its ugly head again and again. So, no it will never go away, just might be controlled with diet and exercise, and a little help from meds when needed.

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Old 09-23-2011, 04:18   #6
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It's vegan propaganda based on faulty science. There's plenty of critics out there who have debunked the "facts" they present. I turned it off after 30 minutes.

We are not rats. We are omnivores and cannot get all the necessary nutrients we need from a vegan diet

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Old 09-23-2011, 04:29   #7
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I'm pretty certain I'd need to reverse my genetic history before I could begin to attempt to reverse my diabetes.

That said, raw foods can be pretty darn good. Lots of crunchy snacks from the dehydrator/well-behaved toaster oven. Loves me some vegan cuisine, too! But I can't figure out how to make a non-spiky, full-time menu from either persuasion. (Nor from vegetarian, for that matter.)

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Old 09-23-2011, 04:42   #8
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Yes, I always feel much better when I eat lots of fresh veggies and some fruit. But I've tried vegetarian before and couldn't make it work. I have ethical issues with modern methods of meat production, so I try to buy local grassfed whenever possible. My ultimate goal is to buy 100% of our meat from local farmers whose animals are raised the way they are supposed to be. It's just hard financially. We have cut back on how much meat we eat already so we can afford to buy all grassfed beef. We're going to try to make some bulk meat purchases next year, but we'll see.

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June 2010 ~ 9.2
Aug 2010 ~ 7.1
Nov 2010 ~ 6.0
July 2011 ~ 5.2

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Old 09-23-2011, 04:56   #9
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Besides which, those yahoos surely never ate a steak you could cut with a fork, or they'd forsake their vegan (PETA) ways in a New York minute!




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Old 09-23-2011, 05:07   #10
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On top of everything else, I have yet to see any actual EVIDENCE that this diet does much good for diabetics. Has anyone? The only thing I've seen published was one short study of just a few people who got their A1C down from an average of 8.3 to an average of 7.1 by the end of the study. Am I supposed to be impressed? Anyone here satisfied (let alone "reversed") with an A1C of 7.1?! Some people are diagnosed with less than that.

On my unabashedly carnivorous (sure, I'm all for more ethical practices, but that's not going to stop me from eating what I need), very high-fat and low carb diet, my A1C went from 10.7 to 5.1 in a little over a year. And, it took me over half of that year to figure the diet out, so really only about half a year. No contest.

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