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trying to make some sense of it all - Page 2


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Old 03-18-2016, 03:19   #11
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Fwiw, glycogen stored in a muscle is only used in that muscle. It doesn't get released back into circulation. That's the livers job.

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Old 03-18-2016, 04:52   #12
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I've noticed sometimes if I've intermittently fasted and decide to maybe do a brisk walk of maybe 15 to 40 minutes and come back and test it's higher than when I started. However, If I do a steep demanding hike of 2-4 hours, come back and test it's generally lower than my start. I'm in ketosis most of the time.

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Self diagnosed 11/'13, eating LCHF, Ketogenic. My Cardiologist is trying to help me manage my BG levels as I have no PCP
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Old 03-18-2016, 05:58   #13
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in parallel thought with Lawrence D i am surmising that it is like weight training in that i have plateaus that i will have to overcome. i.e. your body gets used to a routine and you have to switch it up to develop further.

mbuster, i understand glycogen also as being ready fuel in the muscle.

bignick, i felt the poor rep performance i experienced when i upped my weights while lifting made a huge load demand in a short time and a bit of a liver dump to compensate because of what the body was trained to expect.

i no longer get the 50 point drops when lifting or bicycling. my last session i lifted, rode the bike and only had an 11 point drop in the end. i would like to think that the liver may be coming around to doing it's proper job as a bs regulator. going from 97bs to 86bs over course of session. 7 hrs later it was still only 90bs.

one thing i found is that the last time i ate a piece of bread, when i got the spike i climbed on the bike and killed it. 2/19/16 171bs 5 mile recumbent ride 40 minutes later i'm at 101bs. NO more bread.

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Old 03-18-2016, 13:48   #14
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I have very poor blood glucose control when I exercise. Huge spikes over 100 points then nasty crashes later, taking me out of commission for the rest of the day. This started when I was an athlete in high school so for me at least it wasn't a matter of adapting or getting back in shape. I actually was forced to give up tennis a few years ago and stopped HIT cardio training, switching to weight lifting, which helped. Right now I do high weight low rep, for 20 minutes 2x a week.

From my perspective, if you enjoy your current exercise routine, I would suggest looking into controlling your BG response through other means, rather than curtailing something that makes you happy.

* Some people play with adding protein before/after working out.
* Jenny Ruhl from bloodsugar101 has had success with taking glucose before and sometimes during exercise if her BG dropped to prevent a rebound. ATLCX (Episode 27): Jenny Ruhl | Overcoming The Problems With A Low-Carb Diet
* Another idea is to monitor your heart rate and see if you do best when you stay below a certain level (which can help if your BG spike is due to cortisol).

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Old 03-19-2016, 19:34   #15
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cutting meat portion = less bg over time? if in ketosis does any carb addition or say piece of candy mean you have to restart the whole process? do i have to invest in new devises? what a long strange trip it's turning out to be, eh?

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Old 03-19-2016, 21:14   #16
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A piece of candy COULD throw you out of ketosis. How long it takes to get back into it can vary. Salim talks about it taking 3 days or more. I have been out of (measured) ketosis (Ketonix) for upwards to a week. My problem isn't candy, but medication that raises BG.

Not everyone needs to be in ketosis or even wants to make the commitment.

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Old 03-19-2016, 21:42   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glwilso8 View Post
cutting meat portion = less bg over time? if in ketosis does any carb addition or say piece of candy mean you have to restart the whole process? do i have to invest in new devises? what a long strange trip it's turning out to be, eh?
Ketosis is no more binary than diabetes is. When you are not eating enough carbohydrates to fuel your body your liver kicks in and produces more glucose from protein, making ketones (a darn good fuel for the rest of your body) as a byproduct. The shorter you are on carb-fuel, the more ketones the liver will produce as a byproduct of making enough glucose fuel to run the systems that need glucose. I'm sure there are numbers that someone can provide you with a magic cut-off for measured ketones that means you're in ketosis, but it will be similar to the cut-offs for normal/prediabetic/diabetic. It's all on a spectrum.

So - no, a piece of candy will not kick you out of ketosis (although a big enough piece of candy may mean your level of ketosis is slightly less deep).

Personally - I don't pay much attention to whether I'm in ketosis or not. I likely am, since I'm eating fewer than 60 grams of carbs/day (one measure that is used by some as a guideline for a ketogenic diet). Diehard ketogenic followers will likely tell you that around 20 grams is the only safe number unless you are testing for ketones (that new equipment you're asking about). Since my goal is to manage my blood glucose, I' don't care & I've never bothered to check.

You can make this simple (just eat to your meter) or complex (get a device that measures ketones and test to your heart's content).

. . . although my family would laugh at the thought that what I'm doing (which is testing and recording everything I eat so I build a personal database of safe/unsafe foods) is simple.

(I like measurements, research, and data - but I limit my obsession to what I believe is relevant, and since my sole goal is control of blood glucose, ketone production simply isn't relevant to me. It may be relevant to you - and that's just fine! My point is that you don't NEED to monitor ketones/ketosis to control your blood glucose.)

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Old 03-19-2016, 22:42   #18
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Its not the carbs that stops the ketones, its the insulin thats secreted as a result that stops them. If enough insulin - long enough, no ketones - no ketosis.

There are several good sites about ketosis. I like this one for simplicity and this one if you are looking for complexity. Plenty of articles on Dr. Attia's site. This is also a good site.

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Old 03-20-2016, 00:07   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neohdiver View Post
My point is that you don't NEED to monitor ketones/ketosis to control your blood glucose.)
That's very true. The reason I try to stay in ketosis is that its a way to check if my diet is high enough in fat and/or low enough in carbs. I don't do so much counting of carbs anymore (did at first). When I'm in ketosis, I know I'm eating right for me (I have to eat very low carb). It's a tool for me and I find it easier, and less painful, to breathe into the Ketonix meter than to constantly prick my fingers.

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Old 03-20-2016, 00:11   #20
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Quote:
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Its not the carbs that stops the ketones, its the insulin thats secreted as a result that stops them. If enough insulin - long enough, no ketones - no ketosis.
That's interesting. I read that it was more glucose in the blood that knocked one out of ketosis, but maybe this is just another way of saying the same thing. Glucose = insulin.

I'm going to give those websites a read. The scientific one gave me a headache just looking at it but I may wade through it none the less.

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