What Is The Difference?

Go Back   The Diabetes Forum Support Community For Diabetics Online > Diabetes Forum Community > Diabetes

Diabetes This section of the forum can be used to discuss anything and everything to do with Diabetes. Please use this general Diabetes section for any comments or discussions that don't fit into the more specific forum categories below. Please also ensure that all posts and threads are on topic, about Diabetes.


Like Tree87Likes

What Is The Difference?


Closed Thread
 
Shared Thread Thread Tools
Old 03-26-2016, 16:47   #1
Active Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: California USA
Posts: 43

Member Type
Type Pre
Diagnosed in 2016

116 likes received
77 likes given
Default What Is The Difference?

I'm still not clear what the difference is between pre diabetes and type 2 diabetes? Yes I understand your A1C tests above 6.4 for type 2 (but many of you are now showing A1C's in the fifties?)
Yes I understand diabetes is a progressive disease and high BG is what allows it to progress. And both the pre diabetic & type 2 must keep control of these blood sugars, so I don't see the difference.
Does pre diabetic mean once you get your BG under control there's the possibility that your body will return to it's ability to handle cards & sugars?
Is it the pre diabetic hasn't reached BG levels yet that have have done any harm?
It does seem the pre diabetic has an easier time controlling their BG but they still must watch carbs, get the necessary exercise and continue with the blood test kits.
So what is the difference?

MaJoie and diablock like this.
FRSam is offline  
Old 03-26-2016, 17:29   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Powhatan VA USA
Posts: 830

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 2004

1478 likes received
6012 likes given
Default

The differences are labels and the arbitrary numbers at which the powers that be have decided to set the cut offs. There is no cure at this time but we can control blood sugars and prevent further damage. Depending on how high and how often blood sugars have been elevated one can have damage to nerves, eyes, kidneys and other organs even while still having fasting sugars in the pre-D range. There are several genes associated with diabetes. I suspect it has to do with which gene(s) are involved and maybe how long the dysfunction was going on before diagnosis that determines how much difficulty one has with maintaining control. If you can keep your blood sugar under control when you have the pre-D diagnosis you may be able to keep from having the diagnoses of diabetes. But you can not go back to eating all the carbs you feel like. Control prevents "complications." It doesn't equal a permanent cure.

diabetes86, VeeJay, Philip and 3 others like this.
MaJoie is offline  
Old 03-26-2016, 17:45   #3
Active Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: California USA
Posts: 43

Member Type
Type Pre
Diagnosed in 2016

116 likes received
77 likes given
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaJoie View Post
The differences are labels and the arbitrary numbers at which the powers that be have decided to set the cut offs. There is no cure at this time but we can control blood sugars and prevent further damage. Depending on how high and how often blood sugars have been elevated one can have damage to nerves, eyes, kidneys and other organs even while still having fasting sugars in the pre-D range. There are several genes associated with diabetes. I suspect it has to do with which gene(s) are involved and maybe how long the dysfunction was going on before diagnosis that determines how much difficulty one has with maintaining control. If you can keep your blood sugar under control when you have the pre-D diagnosis you may be able to keep from having the diagnoses of diabetes. But you can not go back to eating all the carbs you feel like. Control prevents "complications." It doesn't equal a permanent cure.
Thank you MaJoie, I suspected this was the case...so it definitely looks like I've entered a new way of life. Not all bad, I will miss those wonderful desserts and dinners and special occasion meals, but it's nice to get out and do a little walking with my fur kid early in the morning and the new food isn't that bad, more work, but not bad. Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

Patdart, MaJoie and glwilso8 like this.
FRSam is offline  
 
Old 03-26-2016, 18:32   #4
Moderator
 
VeeJay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 9,269

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 2010

11876 likes received
4357 likes given
Default

Whatever the label, the treatment is the same. Reduce the very foods that cause the BG to rise above 140 at any time. How much you need to reduce carbs will, of cource, depend on how well your system handles carbs.

Too often doctors will tell people who's BG enters the "pre" range that they don't need to do anything but maybe lose some weight. But doing something to get and keep BG down near normal levels will most likely stop the progression into the full diabetes range. Diabetes doesn't have to be progressive if BG is kept low.

Patdart, Daytona, MaJoie and 2 others like this.
__________________
My low-carb recipe collection on Pinterest
https://www.pinterest.com/VRStudio1/...light-recipes/
70 yrs. Dx May 2010
Diet controlled: VLC/HF
BG steady with no highs or lows.
A1C in the 5% range.
____________________________________
Gluten intolerant, sensitive to dairy & eggs.
Eat no grains
VeeJay is offline  
Old 03-26-2016, 20:09   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: California, USA
Posts: 3,075

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 2009

4566 likes received
542 likes given
Default

Pre-diabetes needs to be WATCHED.

Diabetes needs to be ADDRESSED and TREATED.

In most cases, pre- probably just means "before" and one is on the way to actual diabetes.

However, in some cases pre- may in fact mean "less than" and the person may live the rest of their lives without diabetes. In this case it really just means "at the high end of non-diabetic".

We don't have sufficient data to really know what the breakdown is at this time.

So meanwhile, WATCH pre-diabetes but TREAT diabetes. No significant harm or risk will come from pre-diabetes outside of it turning into diabetes which, as I said, is quite a likely outcome.

glwilso8 and FRSam like this.
__________________
Salim Morgan, T2
66 Years
DX: 9/2009 A1C=10.7
A1C 2/2010: 6.7 (DX + 4 months)
A1C 5/2010: 6.0 (DX + 8 months)
A1C 8/2010: 5.7 (DX + 11 months)
A1C 11/2010: 5.1 (DX + 14 months)
A1C 9/2011: 5.6 (DX + 2 years)
A1C 7/2012: 5.5 (DX + 2 years 10 months)
A1C 1/2019: 5.5
Diet: Approximately C:10;P:15;F:75 (as % calories)
Exercise: Not much. Stairs at home & work.
NO MEDS, No Highs, No Lows
Grandkids: 22
smorgan is offline  
Old 03-26-2016, 20:40   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 170

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 2015

364 likes received
62 likes given
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by smorgan View Post
No significant harm or risk will come from pre-diabetes outside of it turning into diabetes which, as I said, is quite a likely outcome.
There are two recent studies that suggest that prediabetes is not a benign condition, and might merit treatment:

In their analysis of National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey data, prediabetes was associated with a 70% higher prevalence of chronic kidney disease than in the nondiabetic population (17.7% versus 10.6%).

Melsom, Toralf, et al. “Prediabetes and Risk of Glomerular Hyperfiltration and Albuminuria in the General Nondiabetic Population: A Prospective Cohort Study.” American Journal of Kidney Diseases (2015).

A second study, published in January demonstrated a correlation between elevated blood glucose levels (even in the high normal range) and all cancers except liver cancer.

Quote:
This study demonstrated that higher HbA1c levels within both the diabetic (≥6.5%) and non‐diabetic (6.0–6.4%) ranges were independently associated with the risk of all cancers. Higher HbA1c levels within the non‐diabetic range were associated with 28% and 51% higher risks of all cancers and of colorectal cancer, respectively. Further, low HbA1c levels were associated with an increased risk of liver cancer. To our knowledge, this study is the first to demonstrate that higher HbA1c levels within both non‐diabetic and diabetic ranges in individuals without known diabetes are associated with the risk of all cancers.
High hemoglobin A1c levels within the non-diabetic range are associated with the risk of all cancers.

YMMV, but - personally - had I seen these studies in the prediabetes range I would have been doing more than just watching.

As I've noted before, a broken sugar metabolism is a continuum. The line that demarcates the need for intervention may not be fixed for everyone, but may be significantly earlier than many (especially the medical profession) previously thought.

VeeJay, MaJoie, glwilso8 and 1 others like this.
__________________
2 October 2015 (diagnosis) - HbA1c 7.2% - weight 197.3 lbs :: 7 March 2016 - First post-diagnosis check-up: Down 44 lbs, HbA1c 5.7%; all cholesterol values within normal ranges:: 20 March 2016 current weight 148.4 lbs

500 mg Metformin ER
50 mcg levothyroxine
5 mcg liothyronine

Diet: Max 20 net carbs/3 hours - 50 net carbs/day; protein target 60 g/day; calorie cap 1200
neohdiver is offline  
Old 03-26-2016, 21:54   #7
Active Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: California USA
Posts: 43

Member Type
Type Pre
Diagnosed in 2016

116 likes received
77 likes given
Default

Okay so now you've got me thinking again...you're suggesting that even keeping a close eye on my blood sugars, cutting way back on carbs and increasing exercise that it's entirely possible I may develop type 2 diabetes? Theirs no known diabetes in my family and no weight issues, I'm 6'1" and 185lbs. At what point do I look for medical help?

glwilso8 and j2048b like this.
FRSam is offline  
Old 03-26-2016, 22:03   #8
Moderator
 
VeeJay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 9,269

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 2010

11876 likes received
4357 likes given
Default

Why does one person develop diabetes and another one doesn't, and both eat and exercise about the same. One may have a better working glucose metabolism than the other.

When one eats low-carb one breaks the cycle of high BG after ingesting carbs, and if one's body is weak in that area, it may be that it can do well forever at a lower carb load. But since the human body is very complex there's just no way one can accurately predict. But a rising fasting and post-meal BG is an indication. So it seems prudent to reduce carbs.

The problem with labels, it doesn't take into count the variables that will be present with each individual.

My personal opinion is that the dx of pre-diabetes ought to be a heads-up that one is drifting toward the rocky shore of diabetes, and that one needs to do more than just watch and not change course.

Daytona, MaJoie, neohdiver and 2 others like this.
__________________
My low-carb recipe collection on Pinterest
https://www.pinterest.com/VRStudio1/...light-recipes/
70 yrs. Dx May 2010
Diet controlled: VLC/HF
BG steady with no highs or lows.
A1C in the 5% range.
____________________________________
Gluten intolerant, sensitive to dairy & eggs.
Eat no grains

Last edited by VeeJay; 03-26-2016 at 22:13.
VeeJay is offline  
Old 03-26-2016, 23:06   #9
Active Member
 
Lawrence D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Mojave Desert
Posts: 49

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 2014

98 likes received
2 likes given
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FRSam View Post
Okay so now you've got me thinking again...you're suggesting that even keeping a close eye on my blood sugars, cutting way back on carbs and increasing exercise that it's entirely possible I may develop type 2 diabetes? Theirs no known diabetes in my family and no weight issues, I'm 6'1" and 185lbs. At what point do I look for medical help?
Don't get tripped up on the arbitrary numbers. World Health Organization, American Diabetes Association, and others have slightly different criteria for diagnosing the same thing.

The thing to know is that, because you are at the high end of "normal" then it is likely that your system has impaired glucose tolerance.

Once you recognize that and take steps to keep glucose under control, you can avoid the complications that are associated with elevated glucose levels.

(the term "pre-diabetes" was only introduced in 2002/03)

Patdart, VeeJay, Steve3129 and 3 others like this.
Lawrence D is offline  
Old 03-27-2016, 05:53   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: California, USA
Posts: 3,075

Member Type
Type 2
Diagnosed in 2009

4566 likes received
542 likes given
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by neohdiver View Post
There are two recent studies that suggest that prediabetes is not a benign condition, and might merit treatment:

In their analysis of National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey data, prediabetes was associated with a 70% higher prevalence of chronic kidney disease than in the nondiabetic population (17.7% versus 10.6%).

Melsom, Toralf, et al. “Prediabetes and Risk of Glomerular Hyperfiltration and Albuminuria in the General Nondiabetic Population: A Prospective Cohort Study.” American Journal of Kidney Diseases (2015).

A second study, published in January demonstrated a correlation between elevated blood glucose levels (even in the high normal range) and all cancers except liver cancer.



High hemoglobin A1c levels within the non-diabetic range are associated with the risk of all cancers.

YMMV, but - personally - had I seen these studies in the prediabetes range I would have been doing more than just watching.

As I've noted before, a broken sugar metabolism is a continuum. The line that demarcates the need for intervention may not be fixed for everyone, but may be significantly earlier than many (especially the medical profession) previously thought.
Was this a typo?

Quote:
Further, low HbA1c levels were associated with an increased risk of liver cancer.
Also, the observational study needs a lot more to mean much. A significant number of people with those "mid" A1Cs would have been under medical "care" - else how would we even know about them? And so many of those would have been taking beta blockers, statins and who knows what else. These things are routinely prescribed pre-emptively even without any actual disease. The statistic cited alone means about nothing without controlling for such things.

Patdart and MaJoie like this.
__________________
Salim Morgan, T2
66 Years
DX: 9/2009 A1C=10.7
A1C 2/2010: 6.7 (DX + 4 months)
A1C 5/2010: 6.0 (DX + 8 months)
A1C 8/2010: 5.7 (DX + 11 months)
A1C 11/2010: 5.1 (DX + 14 months)
A1C 9/2011: 5.6 (DX + 2 years)
A1C 7/2012: 5.5 (DX + 2 years 10 months)
A1C 1/2019: 5.5
Diet: Approximately C:10;P:15;F:75 (as % calories)
Exercise: Not much. Stairs at home & work.
NO MEDS, No Highs, No Lows
Grandkids: 22
smorgan is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
difference in reading bistritapcv Diabetes 12 08-10-2015 23:16
what is difference between atkins and keto? puppydfh Diabetes Diet and Nutrition 29 01-24-2014 16:27
Difference in Meters? naynay Diabetes Forum Lounge 6 12-02-2011 15:21
The Difference Between numbers. Sketch'd Diabetes 3 03-04-2011 22:28
What a difference... Scrimbles Diabetes Forum Lounge 6 05-18-2010 04:08

LEGAL NOTICE
By using this Website, you agree to abide by our Terms and Conditions (the "Terms"). This notice does not replace our Terms, which you must read in full as they contain important information. You must not post any defamatory, unlawful or undesirable content, or any content copied from a third party, on the Website. You must not copy material from the Website except in accordance with the Terms. This Website gives users an opportunity to share information only and is not intended to contain any advice which you should rely upon. It does not replace the need to take professional or other advice. We have no liability to you or any other person in respect of any content on this Website.


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:48.




Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.