Reversed vs. Cured ?? - Page 2

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Reversed vs. Cured ?? - Page 2


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Old 01-31-2017, 20:42   #11
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Jenny Ruhl discusses the causes of diabetes in this article.
You Did NOT Eat Your Way to Diabetes: The REAL Causes

From what I have read (above and other places), if a non-diabetic is insulin resistant, their pancreas will increase beta cells to accommodate the need for more and more insulin - which, of course, makes them gain weight, but their BG remains in the normal range. Those with the tendency toward diabetes (have damaged genes or some illness or drugs that compromise the pancreas) don't replenish beta cells very well and cannot keep up with the increased need for insulin that is caused by rising insulin resistance.

Personally, I think one can use the term "reversed" if one is talking about raised blood sugar - diet and/or meds and/or insulin will reverse this. The word "cured" has different meanings depending on what it is describing. But, personally, I think this word carries an expectation attached to it that cannot be completely fulfilled as it relates to diabetes management.

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Old 01-31-2017, 20:53   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by div2live View Post
bignick....actually I disagree with you. If one does not have the gene leading one to be a diabetic, then they will not be diabetic. Of course lifestyle can accelerate the onset and severity of the disease, but lots of people who are overweight, etc. etc. do not have diabetes...!
Fine to disagree, and is there really a genetic predisposition to become diabetic or not? At one time it was thought that it was genetics that caused obesity. I think that it has now been proven false. The Human Genome Project has shown genetics to play a much lower roll in many diseases than originally thought and genetic propensity is easily suppressed by doing what is necessary and taking control of ones health.

I realize many that are overweight and even morbidly obese are not diabetic. That does not mean they are healthy or free from other health related issues that may lead to an early demise.

Where do you draw the line where one is diabetic and not? My wife's Endo, at my request tested her A1c at 6.4, claimed she was working herself into diabetic territory and she should start eating better. She did for a while. She is highly addicted to carbs and eats constantly, drinks constantly, is fairly sedentary, not overweight. When testing, her BG is always a lot higher than mine. She has all the signs of being diabetic, but according to her Endo she is not.

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Feb '18 A1c 5.2
Feb '18 Lab Results
FBG
Chol 262
HDL 45
Trig 108
LDL 194
Insulin 4.7 (2.0-19.6)
11/15/17 30 Day FBG average 109


Male 68 157 lbs. 6'


Self diagnosed 11/'13, eating LCHF, Ketogenic. My Cardiologist is trying to help me manage my BG levels as I have no PCP
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Old 01-31-2017, 21:45   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bignick View Post
Where do you draw the line where one is diabetic and not? My wife's Endo, at my request tested her A1c at 6.4, claimed she was working herself into diabetic territory and she should start eating better. She did for a while. She is highly addicted to carbs and eats constantly, drinks constantly, is fairly sedentary, not overweight. When testing, her BG is always a lot higher than mine. She has all the signs of being diabetic, but according to her Endo she is not.
I think it might be time to see a different endo. At the bare minimum to get a second opinion

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Here are some good starting points to read

Blood Sugar 101 - VERY informative and accurate
http://www.diabetesforum.com/diabete...ng-method.html a tried and true testing method
https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb lists foods for LCHF

""You take the blue pill, the story ends. You wake up in your bed and believe whatever the doctors want you to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes." "
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Old 01-31-2017, 22:03   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by div2live View Post
bignick....actually I disagree with you. If one does not have the gene leading one to be a diabetic, then they will not be diabetic. Of course lifestyle can accelerate the onset and severity of the disease, but lots of people who are overweight, etc. etc. do not have diabetes...!
I wonder if there is a gene (or predisposition) for diabetes.


If I am not mistaken, sugar and carbs go into the bloodstream as sugar.
Insulin is released and helps move the sugar to the energy stores and when that is full insulin helps pushes the sugar into the cells
If the person continues to eat too much sugar and carbs and the stores are full, the cells will eventually stop accepting sugar causing more insulin to be released... The start of diabetes because the sugar stays in the blood.

can someone say that if someone doesn't have this 'gene' then if they eat so much sugar and carbs and all their stores is full, their cells will never stop accepting sugar? Ever?

I personally believe while each person has a different threshold, there is a point where everyone will get diabetes if they eat too much sugar and carbs (more than their cells can handle)

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Here are some good starting points to read

Blood Sugar 101 - VERY informative and accurate
http://www.diabetesforum.com/diabete...ng-method.html a tried and true testing method
https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb lists foods for LCHF

""You take the blue pill, the story ends. You wake up in your bed and believe whatever the doctors want you to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes." "
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Old 01-31-2017, 22:06   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hftmrock View Post
I think it might be time to see a different endo. At the bare minimum to get a second opinion
Her Endo of over 30 years has retired and she will be going to another. My thoughts are the old guy was old school and used ADA guidelines to define the disease. He was waiting for her to cross the line, then start prescribing meds and throwing pills at the symptoms rather than treating the cause.

__________________
Feb '18 A1c 5.2
Feb '18 Lab Results
FBG
Chol 262
HDL 45
Trig 108
LDL 194
Insulin 4.7 (2.0-19.6)
11/15/17 30 Day FBG average 109


Male 68 157 lbs. 6'


Self diagnosed 11/'13, eating LCHF, Ketogenic. My Cardiologist is trying to help me manage my BG levels as I have no PCP
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Old 01-31-2017, 23:01   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hftmrock View Post
can someone say that if someone doesn't have this 'gene' then if they eat so much sugar and carbs and all their stores is full, their cells will never stop accepting sugar? Ever?
I believe it's not so much that the cells are forced to accept more glucose and thereby using up the glucose, but that the excess blood glucose not accepted by the cells is removed from the bloodstream by storing it in fat cells, which is another role of insulin.

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Old 01-31-2017, 23:14   #17
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All,
I think when we get into these discussion on this topic, it is important to site articles or sources to support positions. We have a lot of first time diabetics on this site. Giving our opinions without some support documentation could be misleading or at least confusing to those that are new in dealing with this disease.

I site chapter 3 in Blood Sugar 101 "What really causes diabetes?"....I think Jenny Ruhl covers this well and in the back of her book, she has over a full page of References on the topic

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Old 01-31-2017, 23:39   #18
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Here's one.

Obesity Doesn't Cause Diabetes--Diabetes Genes Causes Obesity

Quote:
Scientists have discovered that people don't get Type 2 Diabetes unless several important genes that regulate blood sugar are damaged.
I would suggest reading this article by Jenny Ruhl. She not only summarizes the studies that brought her to the conclusion cited, but links to them as well so one can read them in their entirety.

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Old 01-31-2017, 23:57   #19
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And another: (I have now covered with references what I stated in another post)

Insulin's role in the human body

Quote:
Insulin and Metabolic Processes

The most important role of insulin in the human body is its interaction with glucose to allow the cells of the body to use glucose as energy. The pancreas usually produces more insulin in response to a spike in blood sugar level, for example after eating a meal high in energy. This is because the insulin acts as a “key” to open up the cells in the body and allows the glucose to be used as an energy source.

Additionally, when there is excess glucose in the bloodstream, known as hyperglycemia, insulin encourages the storage of glucose as glycogen in the liver, muscle and fat cells. These stores can then be used at a later date when energy requirements are higher. As a result of this, there is less insulin in the bloodstream, and normal blood glucose levels are restored.
This article makes interesting reading, and resources are cited at the end of it. And if you like more in-depth bioscience, this one would do it for you Physiologic Effects of Insulin

-------------
div - it's always good to be reminded to back up statements made here that could be construed as opinion rather than fact.

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70 yrs. Dx May 2010
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A1C in the 5% range.
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Eat no grains
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Old 02-01-2017, 00:11   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VeeJay View Post
I believe it's not so much that the cells are forced to accept more glucose and thereby using up the glucose, but that the excess blood glucose not accepted by the cells is removed from the bloodstream by storing it in fat cells, which is another role of insulin.
i was not clear and I apologize... I meant that insulin stores sugar in fat cells but if you still eat too much , eventually the cells refuse the sugar causing insulin.

I would imagine that would be how it is for 99% of the world. The threshold is different but eventually if continually overeating carbs, your fat cells will refuse to store it anymore in my opinion.

__________________
Here are some good starting points to read

Blood Sugar 101 - VERY informative and accurate
http://www.diabetesforum.com/diabete...ng-method.html a tried and true testing method
https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb lists foods for LCHF

""You take the blue pill, the story ends. You wake up in your bed and believe whatever the doctors want you to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes." "
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