The dawn effect - a few questions

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The dawn effect - a few questions


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Old 04-05-2012, 02:44   #1
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Default The dawn effect - a few questions

Ok, my last doctor (who I changed pretty rapidly) told me there was no such thing as the dawn effect, despite me giving him evidence of meter readings taken over a 2 hour period after I wake up, having eaten nothing. So, my BG numbers read about 110 when I wake up, rising to about 160 an hour later then steadily falling back down to about 100 after 2 hours.

My question is about breakfast. I was having some yoghurt and fruit, about 1 hour after I woke up, but the problem was that was sending my BG through the roof, I think basically because I was eating at the high point of my 'dawn effect', this was compounding my numbers and sending me way over 200 for a long time.

I then tried eating some chicken and nuts (plain) for breakfast, this was better, but my numbers still peaked at 200, some 3 hours after I woke up and started being active.

So, I realise I should eat breakfast, but I don't want to compound the dawn effect spike, how do I do this? Also, is it really essential that I eat breakfast? I have been told that my metabolism can slow by as much as 1/4 if I don't eat breakfast, thus causing weight problems.

Btw, I don't take any meds. My last A1C was 6.4. I exercise a lot (for example I run 5 km in 25 minutes 3 times a week and cycle every day). I am fit.

Can anyone help me? I would like to eat breakfast, but would also like to reduce the morning spike, mainly caused by the dawn effect.

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I have found that exercise is the key...

Oh, and cut back on the pizza....
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Old 04-05-2012, 03:38   #2
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Are you a coffee drinker. I had a similar problem, my kick in number was 150, before I saw a turn around. Its all about signaling in the morning. I drink coffee with 4grams of sugar, 4 packets of art. sweetener, coconut oil and heavy cream as soon as I wake up. The sugar mixed with the art sweetener facilitate a large GLP_1 release. GLP1 is the signal that tells your liver to stop the glucose and for your pancreas to release insulin. Lemon juice and water with sugar and art sweeteners works as well. If your opposed to this experiment with different foods as soon as you wake up.

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Old 04-05-2012, 03:46   #3
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^thanks, interesting stuff about the GLP_1 release, may experiment with that. Would any artificial sweetener work do you think?

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I have found that exercise is the key...

Oh, and cut back on the pizza....
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Old 04-05-2012, 04:16   #4
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Not by itself. Your body can't distinguish between sugar and art sweeteners when they are combined together. It reacts as if you consume way more carbs than you actual did. My FBG's are between 75-85, I drink my coffee, eat some breakfast 45min to an hour later and my 1hr PP is usually less than 90. I also walk 2 miles after eating breakfast.

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Old 04-05-2012, 05:03   #5
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i'm no meds, but I found eating no carb b'fast did it for me after a while...I quit having the release when I first woke up. It took a while, but after a year it quit.

Have not tried MCS's solution...it was never that high to require.




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Old 04-05-2012, 07:33   #6
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First of all the dawn phenomenon does exist. The whole chain reaction starts around 5-6 hours after you sleep. At this point of time the BG is the lowest, when the liver starts dumping stored glucose and the sugars start to go up again. If your waking up reading is 110, it should be lower say about 2 hours before that.

The reason for your spike could be the fruit. Paleo diets recommend that break fast be eaten as early as you can after waking up. I'd really suggest 2-3 eggs any which way you like. No buns or bread. Since you are fond of exercise. A short walk 15-20 mins 1 hour after break fast will give you the best 2 hr post breakfast readings you will ever get.

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Old 04-05-2012, 12:04   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCS View Post
Not by itself. Your body can't distinguish between sugar and art sweeteners when they are combined together. It reacts as if you consume way more carbs than you actual did. My FBG's are between 75-85, I drink my coffee, eat some breakfast 45min to an hour later and my 1hr PP is usually less than 90. I also walk 2 miles after eating breakfast.
Have you tried it without the walking in order to confirm your theory (and remove a possible confounder)?

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Old 04-05-2012, 14:19   #8
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I remember 5 years ago when I told my doctor I thought I was having DP, he basically told me it was so rare and only athletic males got it. Once I joined lots of forums I saw thousands of people similar to me. I finally have controlled the DP before I wake up and now have normal bgs. But once I wake up my bgs go up about 10 points an hour until I eat. I've tried all combos of food, coffee, no coffee and even no food and my bgs still go up. The only thing I find that works somewhat is to take 2 of my metformins in the morning. It somewhat limits the amount of the spike.

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Old 04-05-2012, 14:53   #9
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I don't eat breakfast and haven't for years. Breakfast is black coffee sometimes with creamer. The one time I did eat and tested afterwards my level was 160. I test myself first thing in the morning and have gotten a range of numbers between 108 and 148. The only way I use sugar is in baking.

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Old 04-05-2012, 15:31   #10
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Have you tried it without the walking in order to confirm your theory (and remove a possible confounder)?
Yes I did this for several days with out exercise, morning, noon, dinner. In fact did this in a restaurants before my meal came out. 1 sugar packet, 4 art sweeteners in the water they serve before they bring out the dinner. All have the same effect. This stimulates insulin release and minimizes glucose release, but you have no way of telling how much insulin you do have. The article below and others like it are what provided me with the insight to test to see if I did have insulin production, but had malfunctioning signaling, which I did. I turned to Dandelion root, Milk Thistle, Coffee, all have Chlorogenic acid which help to stimulate GLP-1.

I did vary the amount of sugar at first, 2g, 4g, 6g, until I found what level I needed. 2g wasn't enough of an impact, 4g work well, 6g gave me an unacceptable spike. I also do this while working in the summer heat (110-120 heat index here) I will mix a 500ml bottle with lemon juice, 4g of sugar, 4 packets of art sweetener and drink one about every hour or so. Keeps my BG level at a constant 90 where as it would go well beyond 100. As soon as I stop and cool down it drops back into the 80's. I have also used D-Ribose which will strip glucose from your blood in an effort to make glycogen, it works well while exercising, but not well if you are idle. If not exercising you will get an initial drop of your BG's then a steady rise over a 3-4 hr period while using the D-Ribose.

Here is one article, they are others out there.

(Reuters Health) - Combining artificial sweeteners with the real thing boosts the stomach's secretion of a hormone that makes people feel full and helps control blood sugar, new research shows.

It's unknown whether this means anything for people's health, but "in light of the large number of individuals using artificial sweeteners on a daily basis, it appears essential to carefully investigate the associated effects on metabolism and weight," conclude Dr. Rebecca J. Brown and colleagues from the National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases.

Because artificial sweeteners are virtually carbohydrate-free, they have been thought not to have any effect on how the body handles glucose (sugar), the researchers explain.

But there's some evidence that artificial sweeteners may trigger secretion of glucagon-like peptide-1 (GLP-1). GLP-1 is released from the digestive tract when a person eats as a "fullness" signal to the brain, curbing appetite and calorie intake.

To investigate further, Brown's team had 22 healthy normal-weight young people take two glucose challenge tests. These tests, which measure how well the body metabolizes glucose, require a person to drink a sugar-filled beverage after fasting for several hours.

Ten minutes before consuming the "glucose load," study participants drank either roughly two-thirds of a diet soda containing an artificial sweetener or the same amount of carbonated water.

In both cases, the increase in a person's blood glucose was the same. But the researchers did find that people secreted significantly more GLP-1 when they drank diet soda before the glucose challenge compared to when they drank carbonated water.

Studies in humans and animals have shown that when artificial sweeteners are consumed without carbohydrates they do not trigger GLP-1 secretion. "However, our data demonstrate that artificial sweeteners synergize with glucose to enhance GLP-1 release in healthy volunteers," Brown and colleagues report.

What this all means to the average diet soda drinker is not known, but the fact that the effect occurred with less than a single can of diet soda suggests it "may be relevant in daily life," the researchers say.

Future research is needed to understand the significance of enhanced GLP-1 secretion for health, they conclude, and studies should be conducted in people with type 2 diabetes and other abnormalities in metabolism.

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