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Discussion Starter #1
I have major heart disease.

I've read that high cholesterol isn't directly related to how much you eat, but rather with how your body thinks it is needs to protect the body from inflammation.

I like bacon, but can easily eat a half pound of it.

Once my triglycerides were over 2000. But I think I was in major self digestion mode from extremely high bg numbers.

Last report was my triglycerides were 250. I don't know how to tell if these numbers are due to food intake or if my body is burning high amounts of body fat for energy.

Wisdom is welcome.
 

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John,

Picking on one food item doesn't tell you a lot. You should be eating other things at the same time and it's the overall picture you have to examine - not just pick on one thing.

For me, the rule of thumb is that I eat a sensible portion of the things on my plate and although I don't really count calories, it is interesting to find that at the end of the day, my calorie count comes out at around 2,200 - roughly where it should be. Over the day I am ready for my meals but never that hungry that the wife's arm is in danger of being gnawed off by me. :)

There are many calculators available on the web - here is one of the easier to follow ones - Calculate Your Ideal Nutrient Intake for Weight Loss or Maintenance . You might find it helpful in coming up with a breakdown that fits your approach.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
John,

Picking on one food item doesn't tell you a lot. You should be eating other things at the same time and it's the overall picture you have to examine - not just pick on one thing.

For me, the rule of thumb is that I eat a sensible portion of the things on my plate and although I don't really count calories, it is interesting to find that at the end of the day, my calorie count comes out at around 2,200 - roughly where it should be. Over the day I am ready for my meals but never that hungry that the wife's arm is in danger of being gnawed off by me. :)

There are many calculators available on the web - here is one of the easier to follow ones - Calculate Your Ideal Nutrient Intake for Weight Loss or Maintenance . You might find it helpful in coming up with a breakdown that fits your approach.
I can see what you are saying here.

I wasn't really thinking in terms of calories. I was more worried about the "evils" of bacon, that are promoted by otherwise heart health conscious people.

I hear it here a lots, that fat is ok. I guess I'm just having a hard time accepting that.
 

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Honestly cured bacon is not evil - it is delicious. Have a look at that calculator and see what the results are based on your current carbohydrate intake compared to what it would look like when you cut your carbs back to half the current figure.

Then follow the approach for a couple of weeks - watching your insulin dose at the same time and see where it takes you.
 

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Last year in your intro thread http://www.diabetesforum.com/introduce-yourself/31834-john-here.html you were given much information about LCHF and many of your questions about the so-called “dangers” of fats were addressed. Your last comment was.
[I’m] willing to do what it takes
You’ve been gone quite a long time and you seem to still be questioning the eating of fats, thinking that eating fats is going to be detrimental to your heart.

This very thing has been discussed over and over again on this forum. There have been studies and papers on this subject for which the links have been posted. The bottom line, however, is proof in the doing. Many have responded to your stated fears by pointing out that when they ate LCHF – with all the fat that this woe entails – their CVD risks and actual issues improved.

I guess at some point you’re going to have to make a decision and if after all the evidence presented about fats and how they don’t really contribute to CVD you decide to at least give this WOE a try for a few months (at least), then the forum is willing to support your decision and will be happy to guide you along the way.

I hope you decide to take the plunge.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Last year in your intro thread http://www.diabetesforum.com/introduce-yourself/31834-john-here.html you were given much information about LCHF and many of your questions about the so-called “dangers” of fats were addressed. Your last comment was.

You’ve been gone quite a long time and you seem to still be questioning the eating of fats, thinking that eating fats is going to be detrimental to your heart.

This very thing has been discussed over and over again on this forum. There have been studies and papers on this subject for which the links have been posted. The bottom line, however, is proof in the doing. Many have responded to your stated fears by pointing out that when they ate LCHF – with all the fat that this woe entails – their CVD risks and actual issues improved.

I guess at some point you’re going to have to make a decision and if after all the evidence presented about fats and how they don’t really contribute to CVD you decide to at least give this WOE a try for a few months (at least), then the forum is willing to support your decision and will be happy to guide you along the way.

I hope you decide to take the plunge.
Without doubt, this is my issue. It seems that you are tired of supporting people on the fence. Perhaps I can look forward to your help a little later on.
 

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John, I guarantee you that most of the answers and reassurance you seek can be found on hundreds of other threads, especially in the "introduce yourself" section and the links that have been provided to you.

You don't need it customized to you, honestly! This way of life is pretty similar for all of us. Get enough fat to feel satisfied and full. Moderate protein. As few carbs as your meter will allow.

You can do this. We are living, walking, breathing, *healthy* proof.
 

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I can see what you are saying here.

I wasn't really thinking in terms of calories. I was more worried about the "evils" of bacon, that are promoted by otherwise heart health conscious people.

I hear it here a lots, that fat is ok. I guess I'm just having a hard time accepting that.
The thing is you have heard "fat is bad" Much much more... so it must be true! The truth is there is NO science behind fat is bad, it was always an assumption that fat was bad.

and the US FDA finally admits that there is no evidence that fat is unhealthy.

having some training as a scientist I can say that when you do studies you dont get to leave out data points that you dont like. (unless who is paying for the study doesn't want the data point because it disagrees with the answer they are paying you for.)

Perhaps you have herd of the Inuit people, They get 85% of their energy from fat. Until they adapted the western diet they had NO hart problems and no diabetes.

You cant just ignore that data and say fat is bad. Unless you are being paid to say fat is bad.
 

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John:

I am relatively new here, so I cannot speak for the group.

Having said that, I am quite sure that when you return you will be welcomed, if you are willing to stop your dithering, and do what everyone here has done.

Why do you think you're any different? Of course, no two individuals are exactly the same (except for identical twins) but the fact that you are "talking" to a very large number of people who eat animal fat, on a regular basis, without apparent harm, and to great benefit, should be somewhat reassuring.

People here grow impatient with those who vacillate endlessly, when a short trial, with frequent testing, will show a dramatic effect on your blood glucose levels.

Ultimately, it is you who choose, but we hope you will choose wisely.
 

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If your concerned about fat, you should read "The Great Cholesterol Myth". It is written by two physicians that have research in showing that fat isn't the boogie man our government has made it out to be and that you can lower your cholesterol by consuming healthy fat.
 

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If your concerned about fat, you should read "The Great Cholesterol Myth". It is written by two physicians that have research in showing that fat isn't the boogie man our government has made it out to be and that you can lower your cholesterol by consuming healthy fat.
The only trouble with that is that you can find a book to support whatever point of view you happen to like.

Here you will find people whose experiences are worth much more than anything written by some guy who just wants to sell books, and become famous.
 

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Why do you think you're any different?
My faith made me different. So I am special, just like everyone else in existence.

But I like your question. I am fairly bright, but somehow self-destructive. I believe that most diseases have some deeper emotional connection. While I can say I want to live, my actions say something different.

Overcoming those internal suicidal tendencies has been very hard. With my condition, my eating habits say that I want to die. So, this isn't entirely logical for me and has been a struggle with my emotional needs. I haven't been able to convince myself.

One of the reasons I think I quit coming here is that I got this sort of reaction from people before. You know, "what's wrong with ya" sort of reaction.

So, I'm looking for a little support here.

I hope that helps.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
The only trouble with that is that you can find a book to support whatever point of view you happen to like.

Here you will find people whose experiences are worth much more than anything written by some guy who just wants to sell books, and become famous.
That is also what I am looking for. I have read books. The more I read, the more I fear. Not only fear the diseases, but the answer. Everyone has an answer. . . most of which are answers that I would almost rather die then try to live by.

One popular answer is to go Paleo Diet. If I lived alone, maybe I could do that. But no one else in my family is going to do that. Also, it would require almost a total shift in my friends, and lifestyle. Life is precious, but obviously not that precious to me.

So yes, I want to hear about how it worked to common people. Books are usually written by people that have a different sort of focus than me. I write. . . . alot even, but not a book.

So if someone knows a book that help balance my view point, I would read it. But as one might expect, I hear, "you should read this book" all the time.

I'm here, perhaps someone could just help me see the error in my thinking.
 

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With my condition, my eating habits say that I want to die.
Then you will. And you will die slowly, extremely painfully and alone. Sorry to be so dire but having watched my brother kill himself over the years, not understanding why he was doing that to himself, only to leave the people he loved behind scratching their heads. I'm sure if he had any idea what he was in for, he would have taken it more seriously. If you saw what I saw, you would stop eating the poison you're eating and get serious.

I never knew what it was like to have this disease, I got it myself about 2-1/2 years after he passed away. It's not even been 6 months that I've had it, and I don't understand this fatalistic way of thinking.

Almost exactly 1 year before my brother passed away, we talked for the first time in several years (having been estranged for a couple of years.) He looked horrible and sick. He had had ailing vision for at least 10 years, but I could see just by looking at his eyes how bad his vision (or lack thereof) had become. 7 months after that, I took him to the hospital, he was worried about his toe. In the hospital, when they revealed his pinky toe, it was the blackest black I had ever seen. It was just the pinky toe, but they had to amputate up to the knee. In addition to all of that, he had a stroke not long after the amputation and lost control of one side of his body. It took him months to recover in the hospital from the years of neglect on his body. He was eventually moved to a nursing facility, where he was on dialysis from kidney failure. We were looking at him being released because he appeared to be on the mend when he suddenly died. He was only 52.

You're not a unique snowflake. This WILL happen to you. All of it. You will lose your vision, your kidneys will fail, you will lose a limb. Not might, maybe, possibly ... WILL. It's gonna happen, because its happening to you as you sit there reading this. Do you understand how people lose limbs? When your feet are numb, when you get an infection, your body has no clue because your nerves are damaged and it can't repair it. Something that's literally nothing to a person without diabetes will cause you to lose your leg.

The thing is, you are destroying yourself in a way that you can't see, and the little side effects you notice are easy to discard and play down in your mind. Have you heard how a frog acclimates itself to rising temperature until it actually allows itself to be cooked? That's what you're doing to yourself, and you're going to reach a point where you're cooked. The damage will be irreversible and you will lose something that you will WANT BACK. And you'll wish you had done something, but it will be too late.

The more I read, the more I fear.
Your fear is meaningless, and is an excuse. Doing nothing is also a choice, with dire consequences.

One popular answer is to go Paleo Diet. If I lived alone, maybe I could do that. But no one else in my family is going to do that.
They are also not going to be the ones blind, in a wheelchair with an amputated leg, going to dialysis once a week. You get to experience the results of your neglect all by yourself.

Life is precious, but obviously not that precious to me.
That's just a story you tell yourself because you're not lying in a hospital bed with dire medical news. You feel okay right now, but this can all spin rapidly out of your control. The way you're living, you have one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel.

I'm here, perhaps someone could just help me see the error in my thinking.
You mentioned earlier that Jesus made you different. Are you familiar at all with the bible story where Lazarus went to hell, and asked Abraham to warn his five brothers about hell so they wouldn't end up where he ended up?

“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father’s house, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’

Well this is you. You already have the info. You know you're on a bad road, and you know exactly where you're headed. Nothing anyone says is going to change you. It's a decision that you have to make for yourself.

The only reason I'm replying is because so much of what you're saying reminded me of my brother. I wish I could go back in time and say or do something that would help him change, maybe he would have taken another road. He had some personal demons that contributed to his self-destructive tendencies, I guess. He was really creative, generous, kind and funny. In fact before he passed away I made sure to let him know, he was the funniest person I had ever known. Unfortunately diabetes doesn't really give a crap how nice of a person you are or what you've been through. It destroys you just the same.
 

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John, I feel you are playing with us. Why not play along with us and give this way of eating a try for at least a month? What do you have to lose? Obviously what you are doing isn't working. I kinda hear a depression speaking and nothing will help to dispel that than doing something to try to improve your situation. It's a mystery to me what you mean by asking someone to support you…that's what we are all trying to do for you.

How about giving it at least a try?
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Tea Rose said:
Nothing anyone says is going to change you.
________

I disagree. You have changed me . . . . to some degree. Not actually changed me, but changed my stance.

I am very disagreeable. I go out of my way to disagree. And in disagreeing with you, I am a better man.

Of course, I also agree with a lot of what you are saying. I might be like your brother. I try to be kind, funny, generous, etc. But I have my share of demons.

I was sort of joking about Jesus. I'm not really different, just configured different. Cancer, heart disease, and diabetes runs in my family. I have 5 brothers that have had heart vessel by passes, but I am the youngest and perhaps the worst.

I have a 7 year old daughter. More and more I realize that I don't want to leave her.

So like your brother, I have the self-destructive tendencies. I don't like them. I don't want them to kill me. I have been warned. But like your brother, I think if I am a good person, things will work out for me.

It works to some degree, but not here. It makes one wonder what they're doing wrong. I don't eat really bad, just bad for my list of diseases.
 

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You need to learn to love yourself enough to want to save yourself. The thing about eating badly is, it won't kill you. Not right away. Your chance of passing due to a sudden heart attack is far less than your chance of spending 20 years in increasing pain due to your organs and body being damaged by high blood sugar. By the time you start that decline, it will be too late to say "oh now I should eat to my meter."

You do need to be there for your daughter. Do you think she wants to spend 20 years of her life watching you suffer?

Or can you spend 2 weeks right now eating no carbs, eating more salt and fat, and see how you feel?

If not, I really highly recommend seeing a therapist for depression. Taking medication isn't a personal failing, and it may save your daughter's father.
 
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