[CarolSue]

I have always heard that once there is damage to your Beta Cells it is permanent. This article seems to say that the damaged Beta Cells can be repaired.

https://asweetlife.org/fasting-diet-for-people-with-diabetes-could-regenerate-the-pancreas/

Thoughts?

 

[mbuster]

It sounds worth pursuing, if replicating the process of creation of beta cells in a fetus. Sounds like they are hinting at that in the study. But what keeps an autoimmune response from attacking the new beta cells again in a type 1? If a type 2 has a diminished number of active beta cells, and insulin resistance is not eliminated or earlier diet is resumed, is this just a short reset of greater insulin production. And what damage is that excess insulin going to inflict for those still with insulin resistance? What will the dietary advice be after the cycling process, if it does in fact work.

Yes I'm a pessimist, but I hope that issues can be addressed and this could be a cure.

 

[Winomaster]

Dieting reduces IR or improves insulin output?

Recently, I did six weeks on an intermittent fasting program that was essentially one meal per day. After the six weeks I noticed my BG number was coming down faster than expected during the hours I was not eating. The staff at my diabetes doctor suggested I do a total fast for a few days to sort out if I was taking too much of the Lantus insulin. I was taking 40 units at the time. Turns out I did not need to be taking the Lantus doses at all. The six week intermittent fasting had either improved my insulin production or improved my insulin resistance. It will be awhile before I see the endo for an answer.

 

[Winomaster]

There is a theory proposed by some that the diminished production of insulin by the pancreas is not an exhaustion or a destruction of beta cells. But rather a SUPPRESSION of the beta cells by increased fat stores surrounding the pancreas. If true, then another explanation is needed for why skinny diabetics have excess glucose levels. They must have severe insulin resistance.

I have a book by a Dr Jason Fung that proposes that Diabetes as we see in the US is in fact two conditions: (You can find videos of him on U-tube)
1) Insulin resistance
2) Beta cell suppression by fat surrounding the pancreas.

So, to reverse diabetes in individuals having fattened on a high sugar diet, an individual would need to address both issues: Lower insulin levels and alter diet to eliminate the gross amounts of fructose that fatten the individual. Of course, diabetes is capable of fattening an individual all on its own, but a high fructose diet serves to deliver a second blow to the individual, intensifying the condition.

 

[itissteve]

I'm curious -- why just fructose? There are many other forms of sugar.

 

[Winomaster]

Why Fructose Is the Great villain For Diabetics: Fruit has both fructose and glucose in identical proportions. The glucose can be immediately burned to provide energy. Fructose, on the other hand can only be stored as fat in the liver. So it is much more intensely fattening and is a strong driver of fatty liver disease. When You eat animal protein in amounts greater than your need for protein, the excess is broken down into glucose but no fructose, So carbohydrate derived from this source is less fattening. But eating large amounts of animal protein has its own issues. So, I don't mean to suggest high meat diets are much better.

I'm not certain of the next part, but I think food producers have found a way to separate out the fructose to create foods that are much worse for you than if they had been made with common table sugar. (Half glucose/half fructose.)

 

[itissteve]

I'm not certain of the next part, but I think food producers have found a way to separate out the fructose to create foods that are much worse for you than if they had been made with common table sugar. (Half glucose/half fructose.)

There is high-fructose corn syrup, which has been a villain in public health for some time now. My understanding, though, is that its popularity has more to do with availability and economics than any habit-forming properties (though we know a great deal of science is conducted in the name of making processed foods taste very appealing).

 

[xring]

There is a theory proposed by some that the diminished production of insulin by the pancreas is not an exhaustion or a destruction of beta cells. But rather a SUPPRESSION of the beta cells by increased fat stores surrounding the pancreas. If true, then another explanation is needed for why skinny diabetics have excess glucose levels. They must have severe insulin resistance.

I have a book by a Dr Jason Fung that proposes that Diabetes as we see in the US is in fact two conditions: (You can find videos of him on U-tube)
1) Insulin resistance
2) Beta cell suppression by fat surrounding the pancreas.

So, to reverse diabetes in individuals having fattened on a high sugar diet, an individual would need to address both issues: Lower insulin levels and alter diet to eliminate the gross amounts of fructose that fatten the individual. Of course, diabetes is capable of fattening an individual all on its own, but a high fructose diet serves to deliver a second blow to the individual, intensifying the condition.

Theories....Theories. Well, I don't know about #2. My experience certainly disproves that. At diagnosis, my A1c was 9. I didn't want drugs or insulin, so I read a few books, changed my diet, & lost 85 lbs & my blood sugar went down - after 3 months, my A1c was 6.0 & the doctor said, "No meds or insulin needed; you're in a non-diabetic range. I figured it would stay that way, & I did everything right.

When I lost another 15 lbs & my doc said I'm at an ideal weight, don't lose any more, my blood sugar went UP, A1c went up to 10.4 & I needed to start on insulin. Well, I'm staying at 170 lbs, & I'd assume the fat surrounding my pancreas isn't there anymore.
I've heard about the "Fat blocking Beta cells or blocking insulin" theory. Not valid, at least in my case.

 

[Winomaster]

Clearly you don't have any fat suppression. So you must have insulin resistance. Or declining production in your beta cells. I have had Doctors tell me that if you lose all your excess weight, you are no longer insulin resistant. But the Asian model of diabetes refutes this notion. Their diabetics are skinny for the most part.

Have you ever had that blood test that measures insulin resistance? I don't see how you could be significantly IR if you have lost as much weight as you have. You have to be eating a very low carb diet. Unless you are like a guy I worked with who ate nothing but sugar but was bone and muscle. He was diagnosed diabetic.

I seem to recall that inflammation can drive IR. You might check that theory...that you have such significant inflammation that its that which is driving your IR. Check into it, but I think smoking, bad fats and such can drive inflammation.

 

[xring]

Clearly you don't have any fat suppression. So you must have insulin resistance. Or declining production in your beta cells. I have had Doctors tell me that if you lose all your excess weight, you are no longer insulin resistant. But the Asian model of diabetes refutes this notion. Their diabetics are skinny for the most part.

Have you ever had that blood test that measures insulin resistance? I don't see how you could be significantly IR if you have lost as much weight as you have. You have to be eating a very low carb diet. Unless you are like a guy I worked with who ate nothing but sugar but was bone and muscle. He was diagnosed diabetic.

I seem to recall that inflammation can drive IR. You might check that theory...that you have such significant inflammation that its that which is driving your IR. Check into it, but I think smoking, bad fats and such can drive inflammation.

Maybe. I quit smoking 36 years ago. I never heard of a test that measures insulin resistance but I did have a C-Peptide test that measures insulin production. Mine came out "Normal." I asked the doctor, so...why am I diabetic. He just shrugged. Can't blame him; they don't know everything; if they did, they could cure diabetes.

If I am insulin resistant, it can't have anything to do with fat. Probably other unknown causes. I think the "Diabetes or Insulin Resistance caused by Fat" is a theory that seems to make sense, but may not. Perhaps that conclusion was formulated because diabetes is often diagnosed in people who are overweight. But much of the population is overweight, so maybe it's coincidental.
I've also heard that eating starch & carbs causes diabetes...so why is diabetes less prevalent in Asian countries where noodles are a staple?

 

[Winomaster]

When you lose weight, your body preferentially draws upon the visceral fat first. (The fat inside the body cavity, and for our purposes the fat surrounding and penetrating the pancreas and liver. So, the first pounds lost come from visceral fat. But, I gather when you regain fat on a low sugar diet, it is broadly distributed. I haven't seen the latter part stated explicitly. Though if you are consuming fructose, that is going to go straight to the liver and perhaps other organs.

So, if you don't eliminate fructose from your diet, I could see how a small amount of weight regained could go straight to the liver and pancreas and your blood sugars are going bad despite having lost a lot of weight.

 

[CarolSue]

My son's FIL is diabetic. He was diagnosed in his 40s as Type 2, but put on insulin. He is thin...not excessively, but does not appear to have any weight problems at all. He told me his doctor told him that his body still makes insulin, but not enough. So he does not have IR or an excess of insulin. I told him I have heard that referred to as Type 1.5 or LADA. I have read that LADA can start out slowly and appear to be Type 2, but eventually your body just isn't making enough insulin and you need to inject. Oral meds or diet no longer work.

I'm not sure I have this information correct. Someone with LADA might be able to explain it better.

There is a lot of good information in this thread. I think all diabetics should subscribe to this forum for the information available that you won't get from your medical professionals.

 

[Carel]

Hi All. I'm 50,skinny. Lifetime of high carbs,sugar. A1c 5.6.

Nov18 I stopped my nonsense and started Keto/IF. A1c still about 5.6 though, I must go for new check soon.

2 experts told me I rather have insulin production issue than IR. Since I'm skinny.

If true, yes, then my question becomes:
A) beta cells burnt out? (Fung says heavy IF could help reproduce..??)
B) fats blocking my beta cells.

Milion $ question on B, which fats.
WFPB camp says it's animal protein, dairy
Keto camp tells me cut carbs and the fat will strip off over time.

I do HFLC yes, still it's so difficult, both camps have enormous studies, testimonials, dr's backing them.

I don't want to do more damage from here on. I feel hesitant whether my Keto choice is the right one. It's almost like throwing a dice..

Is it as simple as to do a pancreas scan and see if I'm on the right track? TY