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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey, so I saw my GP today and we talked about my diabetes...

I mentioned about my constant liver dumps. How I have to get up at 4:30am to get a fasting reading, because after that I dump up 2.0 points (36 on the US scale), how if I go 4 hours without a meal I dump up 2.0 points, and how even a simple bit of exercise easily dumps me 2.0 (or MORE) points...

... and my Dr. said my readings were GREAT! :eek: :mad::mad::mad:

Granted, a 6.1 (110) isn't a horrible fasting reading, but I'd rather have a 5.0 (90) or under considering I *do* get down that low...

Mad also that I dumped during my bike ride today... Started the bike ride at a 5.8 and was hoping to finish in the 4.5 range or so ... since it's just about dinner time... Ended up a 6.5 (117), argh. So now I'm eating dinner starting more than 2 points higher than I like.

My 2hr post prandial is going to be in the 8's now instead of high-6's / low-7's because of the stupid dump. And we all know anything higher than 7.8 (140) is where damage starts.

I tried explaining the frustration of this to my Dr. who told me that my sugars are being excellently controlled, that 10's are FINE and that I shouldn't be feeling anxiety over these numbers... but I think she's not listening.

I don't know if there's anything I can do to stop/lessen the liver dumping. One thing my testing has told me is that my stupid liver will dump glucose into the system so quickly it's ridiculous...

I thought the Met was supposed to help the liver do that LESS OFTEN?

Gar.

Erg.

Arg.

Any advice, other than the old "slow, deep breaths... calm down", lol... ?
 

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lol your last sentence was funny, I can tell the frustration, have said the same thing to myself many times. I won't tell you to breathe slowly.

I also have a General Practitioner that seems to be passive and high readings to me are not high readings to him. I went to an endo for further help and he is much more willing to work with me to meet my goals than my pcp. I'm also on Metformin ER and it didn't help my morning readings, now on insulin.

Combating the liver dump seems to be the last and hardest part to control from what I hear from most in the same situation and myself. A work in progress.

Good luck :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Another thing I'm wondering ... I had my Blood Pressure tested, and it's sitting about 158/98.

I was told that they "expect" that of diabetics, that it will be higher.

I gotta admit I was disappointed in my reading. I figured after three months of diet/exercise my BP would be lower that that. =(
 

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Another thing I'm wondering ... I had my Blood Pressure tested, and it's sitting about 158/98.

I was told that they "expect" that of diabetics, that it will be higher.

I gotta admit I was disappointed in my reading. I figured after three months of diet/exercise my BP would be lower that that. =(
It needs to come down, beefy. Whether they expect it or not, it's too high. Needs to come down around 120/80 or less. 50mg of the beta blocker atenolol keeps mine down & no side effects either - although it does slow my heart rate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
It needs to come down, beefy. Whether they expect it or not, it's too high. Needs to come down around 120/80 or less. 50mg of the beta blocker atenolol keeps mine down & no side effects either - although it does slow my heart rate.
Yeah, I know it needs to improve.... At least my heart rate has improved since I started exercising. Resting pulse for me used to be in the high-80's/low-90's and it's now in the low 70's. But the danged BP is stubborn ... It's been in that range, near the 160's for about 6 years.
 

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also remember portable glucose meters are not 100% accurate! I've heard they can be as much as 10-20% off so missing a goal by hitting a 117 instead of 115 is nothing to get upset about in my book at least. good lucka nd take care
 

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I was told that they "expect" that of diabetics, that it will be higher.
I must be the exception to the rule then. I've never had a problem with blood pressure. I'm 60 yo, overweight, diabetic, don't watch my sodium, and spent the last several years being sedentary - and my bp at the endocrinologist (while running high bs numbers) was 107/70. It's usually between there and 120/75 - same as when I was 20 yo.

I wonder if bp isn't one of those supremely genetic things vs diabetes or anything else.
 

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My doc wants my BP below 120/80. Yours seems very high, are you on BP meds? Diabetics are at a higher risk for heart disease and strokes so that is why they advise us to keep it on the low side. Since I gave up processed food, my BP has fallen into the low 100's/70 or even lower. The only numbers docs seem to get concerned about is cholesterol numbers. They usually want everyone on statins.
 
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Yeah, I know it needs to improve.... At least my heart rate has improved since I started exercising. Resting pulse for me used to be in the high-80's/low-90's and it's now in the low 70's. But the danged BP is stubborn ... It's been in that range, near the 160's for about 6 years.
If your blood pressure has been that high for 6 years (actually that 98 diastolic is more concerning to me) why is it not being treated? Diabetics often do have a bit of hypertension and many of us take a low dose of some sort of anti hypertensive at least for renal protection. Prolonged high blood pressure will actually damage those little capillaries in your kidneys that are so vital for them to work properly.
 

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I must be the exception to the rule then. I've never had a problem with blood pressure. I'm 60 yo, overweight, diabetic, don't watch my sodium, and spent the last several years being sedentary - and my bp at the endocrinologist (while running high bs numbers) was 107/70. It's usually between there and 120/75 - same as when I was 20 yo.

I wonder if bp isn't one of those supremely genetic things vs diabetes or anything else.
I have had diabetes over 11 years and I have never had a problem with my BP.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I mentioned my high BP to a friend that is a bodybuilder (I used to lift weights and am still quite large), and he mentioned that if they use the wrong size cuff, say an "adult" cuff instead of "large", that my reading will ALWAYS be high.

It seems if too small a bladder is used to try to encircle the arm, it gives an erroneously wrong reading. He said he reads around 150/90 with a adult cuff, and is normal with a "large" cuff.

I just measured, and my arm circumference measured at the peak of my bicep is 16 1/2" ... (disappointing considering what they once were, lol) which is certainly still on the higher end of large. According to this site, I NEED a 'large' cuff, instead of the 'adult' cuff, and back when my arms were 18" I could have used a thigh cuff...

I'll try and get it checked with a larger cuff and see if that makes a difference. Apparently the difference when using the wrong size can be as high as 50 points!
 

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I mentioned my high BP to a friend that is a bodybuilder (I used to lift weights and am still quite large), and he mentioned that if they use the wrong size cuff, say an "adult" cuff instead of "large", that my reading will ALWAYS be high.

It seems if too small a bladder is used to try to encircle the arm, it gives an erroneously wrong reading. He said he reads around 150/90 with a adult cuff, and is normal with a "large" cuff.

I just measured, and my arm circumference measured at the peak of my bicep is 16 1/2" ... (disappointing considering what they once were, lol) which is certainly still on the higher end of large. According to this site, I NEED a 'large' cuff, instead of the 'adult' cuff, and back when my arms were 18" I could have used a thigh cuff...

I'll try and get it checked with a larger cuff and see if that makes a difference. Apparently the difference when using the wrong size can be as high as 50 points!
Exactly right, beefy . . . hard to imagine medical staff not knowing to use the large cuff, but anything's possible. Ours always use the large cuff on both me & my husband . . . and we bought the large cuff extra for our home monitor.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Exactly right, beefy . . . hard to imagine medical staff not knowing to use the large cuff, but anything's possible. Ours always use the large cuff on both me & my husband . . . and we bought the large cuff extra for our home monitor.
Well, I didn't even think about it ... But my BP was taken by MED STUDENT. (No offense to med students out there... I used to almost be one...)
 

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I think if I were you, I'd just mention it before they get you all strapped up & get a wrong result . . . just say you'll be needing the large cuff to ensure a correct reading.
 

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The hospitals are just now getting the larger cuff. Make sure they are using the large cuff and @beefy, it does affect your number.
 

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I must be the exception to the rule then. I've never had a problem with blood pressure. I'm 60 yo, overweight, diabetic, don't watch my sodium, and spent the last several years being sedentary - and my bp at the endocrinologist (while running high bs numbers) was 107/70. It's usually between there and 120/75 - same as when I was 20 yo.

I wonder if bp isn't one of those supremely genetic things vs diabetes or anything else.
I've never really had problems with my blood pressure. It usually only goes up with severe stress or upset. Otherwise, it's right around normal. I take Metoprolol to control vasovagal syncope and help with essential tremor. Both my parents had/have high blood pressure, so Mom cut the family's salt intake severely after Dad had a bad heart attack when I was in 8th grade. When I was diagnosed with vasovagal syncope in 2005, the Cardiologist told me to increase my salt intake. Mom says I'm the only one in our family that's ever been told I need more salt. Btw, I also am overweight, diabetic, and sedentary.
 

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Try Fenugreek for your dumping

Hi there.

Hope you don't mind my chiming in. I'm a type 2 also. I participated in the Accord Protocol in NYC for 5 years. I learned a great deal from that experience. I also lost all the weight I had to lose and kept it off.

Since you are very determined to control your blood sugar (and aren't we all??), here's what I use.

I went to my local International market (or you can go online and buy this). By Fenugreek Seeds (you can get organic or regular). On the package it will say Methi Seeds.

These seeds are used in Europe to control diabetes. Many people make the tea (that's what I do). My friend chews the seeds after she makes the tea. I don't do that. I don't have to.

Here is what I do.

Take 4 cups of water, put in pot. Add two tablespoons of Fenugreek seeds (they smell like maple syrup).

Don't boil. Just simmer (covered) very low, for about 30 minutes. You will see the water turn a nice brown.

I then strain the seeds and put the tea in a glass container and I either leave it out, or put it in fridge. I sip this hot or cold.

Now here is where it gets interesting. I don't drink a whole cup of tea. I put just a little bit in a paper cup and I sip that before I go to bed.

My fasting sugar is 72 to 118. Yesterday at 5 p.m. my sugar reading was 101. And I had a yogurt for lunch.

I realize that each of us is different in our diabetes. One person's diabetes is not another person's diabetes.

Also, in some people with thyroid problems, one has to read all about Fenugreek before doing this.

I have ALL my diabetic friends on this stuff and it worked for their dawn phenomenon.

And you know that if you exercise, your sugar reading will go up.

I never knew this. One day a few years ago, I went out to shovel snow. I happen to like doing this. I felt absolutely fine. I did it for about 1 hour. Nothing too strenuous, but I and my neighbors were outside moving the snow around.

I went back in my house thinking "oh wow, I shoveled snow, my sugar reading will be 90" It was 400. I have NEVER in my entire life had anything over 250 and that was years before that day.

I looked at the meter and thought I lost my mind.

Luckily I had a doctor's appointment the next day. I explained what happened and he went 'Well, of course that happened, you shoveled snow" He explained to me what happened but at the time, my brain could not understand the glucogen and the muscles and dumping, etc.

I now get it.

I also sprout my own food in my kitchen. Best thing I ever did for my diabetes. Sprouting is the healthiest food on earth. It infuses your cells with such wonderful enzymes and nutrients, well, I'm a different person now that I sprout. Google Benefits of Sprouting, and you'll see what I mean.

So look up Fenugreek and diabetes, make some of the tea, sip a few sips before bedtime (not a lot), just a few sips. And next time you think you might dump, sip a few sips.

Give it a try.

See, doctors practice medicine, THEY DON'T PRACTICE NUTRITION.

Hope I helped.
Melody
 

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I mentioned about my constant liver dumps. How I have to get up at 4:30am to get a fasting reading, because after that I dump up 2.0 points (36 on the US scale), how if I go 4 hours without a meal I dump up 2.0 points, and how even a simple bit of exercise easily dumps me 2.0 (or MORE) points...
We typically consider liver dumps a reactionary event. What you are experiencing is a daily event. It's your Circadian profile or your basal pattern. Of course our livers constantly release glucose. It helps keep us alive when we don't eat. Consider what happens when you eat and your BG goes up. Your body's number one objective is to normalize BGs so it releases insulin. Insulin stores sugars in fat and in your glycogen stores in your liver and muscles. Then when there's an energy need, these stores are released.

Your morning numbers are higher because of hormone reactions, not so much extra sugar dumping. This hormone soup makes you more insulin resistant.

Mad also that I dumped during my bike ride today... Started the bike ride at a 5.8 and was hoping to finish in the 4.5 range or so ... since it's just about dinner time... Ended up a 6.5 (117), argh. So now I'm eating dinner starting more than 2 points higher than I like.

My 2hr post prandial is going to be in the 8's now instead of high-6's / low-7's because of the stupid dump. And we all know anything higher than 7.8 (140) is where damage starts.
You aren't doing anything wrong, so there's no point in getting upset. It's simply how we work. How everybody works.

I tried explaining the frustration of this to my Dr. who told me that my sugars are being excellently controlled, that 10's are FINE and that I shouldn't be feeling anxiety over these numbers... but I think she's not listening.
There are ways to treat it, but they are not easy. You could wake up every day at 4am and shoot a unit or two of insulin. You could go on an insulin pump and tune your basal rates to match your need -- what I did -- or you could try some extended metformin at night.
 

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We typically consider liver dumps a reactionary event. What you are experiencing is a daily event. It's your Circadian profile or your basal pattern. Of course our livers constantly release glucose. It helps keep us alive when we don't eat. Consider what happens when you eat and your BG goes up. Your body's number one objective is to normalize BGs so it releases insulin. Insulin stores sugars in fat and in your glycogen stores in your liver and muscles. Then when there's an energy need, these stores are released.

Your morning numbers are higher because of hormone reactions, not so much extra sugar dumping. This hormone soup makes you more insulin resistant.



You aren't doing anything wrong, so there's no point in getting upset. It's simply how we work. How everybody works.



There are ways to treat it, but they are not easy. You could wake up every day at 4am and shoot a unit or two of insulin. You could go on an insulin pump and tune your basal rates to match your need -- what I did -- or you could try some extended metformin at night.


Or, he can get up at 4 a.m. and because he had a little cup of Fenugreek tea by the bed, when he gets up to pee, just drink some of the fenugreek tea.

hey, it's worth a shot.

lol, Melody
 
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