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Discussion Starter #1
I think my body is too much a carb burning machine. I recently started an exercise program. The first day I came with 3 eggs and 1.5 sausage pattys on board. I thought this was enough to keep me fueled up. But I ended up the 45 min session of mild exercise higher than I started. So I had crashed my blood sugars and my liver had to kick in some glucose.
Next time, I came with the same eggs and sausage on board but added some potatoes for the carbs. I took no fast acting insulin to compensate for the meal and so two hours after eating, my BG at start of session was 280. After the session, my BG had dropped by 105 and stood at 175. The nurse there was scratching her head. But knowing they intended to work me progressively harder, she instructed me to try to come in next time with a BG of 300. I arrived with a 305 number, and after a harder workout I ended 125 points lower. (180) Yesterday, knowing they were going to work me harder yet, I arrived at 305 again. Though, I thought I had a decent margin of safety. But, after the workout, I was marginally higher. So I had busted and rebounded.
As I get in better shape, my recollection from the past is that I get a smaller and smaller BG drop and less danger of a bust and rebound. But in the short term, I'm wondering about the best way to avoid a crash without eating so much at breakfast. I could check my BG half way through the session and then drink as much gatorade as I thought I needed. But that amount would just be a guess. I can experiment and see how much gets the job done. But, I'm still taking on more calories. And nothing I learn at one session is of much use the next time, because they are going to work me progressively harder. The nurse seems not to have seen this extreme a problem with dropping BG's. She has proposed I consume a 10 FL oz bottle of Glucerna 15 min before my workout. It has 11 grms of carbs and 15 grms of protein. So, the 11 grms of carb would be readily available. But the 15 grms of protein might not be available in time for the workout. Seems to me that there is no advantage to taking in anything that is not immediately usable. Anyone have this experience?
 

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Many people advise not to exercise if blood sugar is over 250.

You are aware that blood sugar over 140 is causing damage to your body? if not you may find this part of Bloodsugar 101 of value, Research Connecting Organ Damage with Blood Sugar Levels.

Your next to the last sentence does speak loud, there is no advantage to taking in anything that is not immediately usable. Nor is there any advantage to taking in something that is going to harm your body. Your body has already got a great store of fuel that it runs on most of the time, fatty acids, carbs are not necessary.
 
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Discussion Starter #3
Your body has already got a great store of fuel that it runs on most of the time, fatty acids, carbs are not necessary.
This is why I say in the first line that, "I think my body is too much a carb burning machine." If my body was burning stored fat, I would have no problem. But, it is burning all the glucose I have circulating, and then emptying my liver because it is not making the shift to fat burning. So, how do I speed this transition? People on the Adkins diet accomplish it all the time...going into "ketosis." Is it as simple as eating no carbs for a time to force the changeover? Which is what low carb'ers do all the time. Maybe that shift is something that I don't want to be pushing while working out hard. My BG would be unavoidably crashing and totally emptying my liver of glucose. There is plenty here that I don't fully understand.
 

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Muscles also store glucose by glycogenation and release glucose when one exercises. This also contributes to raised BG when doing strenuous exercise.

Have you considered pulling back on the intensity and going more slowly so your body has a chance to get adjusted?
she instructed me to try to come in next time with a BG of 300.
Spoken by someone who appears to know nothing about diabetes and the dangers of that advice.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Have you considered pulling back on the intensity and going more slowly so your body has a chance to get adjusted?
I think you can see my thinking is going in that same direction. The only way I could go forward as I am, would be if I believed this was a very short phase...that crashing blood sugars promote the changeover to burning fats. But, I don't hear anyone saying this. And the professional here is not understanding the problem. I'm thinking I need to be burning fats much better before I try to exercise at this level.

Thanks for your thoughts.
 

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When I do physical labor, like working in the garden, or when I work-out at the YMCA my BS goes high....therefore I have to be careful! Moderation in work and exercise seems to suit my body much better than pushing myself! I focus on being aware and keeping my BS within safe limits at all times....140 or less, actually I use 120 as my top line, due to the possibility of meter/tabs being off

I find as I do this, I get so I can do a little more or work out a little harder or longer, but I have to increase very slowly....
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Incidentally, the exercise I am doing is for Cardiac Rehab. Recently, I had my AC go out. It was very hot and I couldn't get a repairman out. I was foolish. I got dehydrated, the blood thickened and a narrowed artery went critical.

I say this to make clear that I am being moderate in my level of exercise. I have a "lifeguard" monitoring my vital signs on a screen at all times. Even though they are increasing the pace, day by day, I have yet to perspire enough that I have had to wipe down any of the machines. Yet still, the level of work is causing me to blow thru my glucose stores.
 

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This is why I say in the first line that, "I think my body is too much a carb burning machine." If my body was burning stored fat, I would have no problem. But, it is burning all the glucose I have circulating, and then emptying my liver because it is not making the shift to fat burning. So, how do I speed this transition? People on the Adkins diet accomplish it all the time...going into "ketosis." Is it as simple as eating no carbs for a time to force the changeover? Which is what low carb'ers do all the time. Maybe that shift is something that I don't want to be pushing while working out hard. My BG would be unavoidably crashing and totally emptying my liver of glucose. There is plenty here that I don't fully understand.
I misunderstood, I thought you were saying that you "had to have" carbs for energy to exercise.

I think your body tries to burn up the glucose if it is there because it is harmful to have high levels, similar to how the liver continues to rid your system of alcohol. If you keep feeding the glucose, it will keep burning it.

Cardio is more of an endurance type exercise that does not require glucose, fatty acids fuel this well. Exercises requiring sudden burst of energy, like sprinting or heavy lifting, would burn glucose. People eating low carb do well in endurance type exercises/events.

To adapt, you need to greatly reduce eating what gets turned to glucose and get your BG levels down. Its is that simple in theory, but it is a little more complicated. Your body is used to having high BG and will try to maintain the higher numbers it is used to seeing, so things won't change instantly after one meal and maybe take several weeks or months to. reach a new set point.

When you say crash, are you referring to your BG level? How low is it going? It is not dangerously low dropping into the 60s or 50s, if it doesn't continue to keep dropping. But one can experience the same feelings and symptoms dropping from 300 to 200 quickly, a false hypo, as someone having a real hypo event. The false hypo is not life threatening, but may make you feel like it is.
 

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I think you can see my thinking is going in that same direction. The only way I could go forward as I am, would be if I believed this was a very short phase...that crashing blood sugars promote the changeover to burning fats. But, I don't hear anyone saying this. And the professional here is not understanding the problem. I'm thinking I need to be burning fats much better before I try to exercise at this level.

Thanks for your thoughts.
Crashing, or exhausting muscles of their stored glucose, forces the liver to convert more of its stored glycogen back to glucose and put it in the bloodstream. It will keep trying to replenish those stores at high levels by converting amino acids (from excess protein you eat and even catabolizing your body own muscles). No, its not a short phase to break the cycle.

Glucose is a necessity, but carbs are not. The misconception that eating a lot of carbs is a necessary thing is totally untrue but continues to preached by most nutritionist and dietitians and exercise coaches.
 

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What your doing sounds dangerous. I don't workout as hard, I too have been pushing it, and have see BG as low as 83. The first time I was in the 80's I freaked out and thought I was going to die, but I felt good, so after about 3 hours I figured at least I'll feel good when I die, and went to bed. Lol
Seriously I can't imagine a nurse telling someone with already high BG to load up on more, and try to get it higher. I think if it were me I would question her way of thinkin. A slow steady work out will cause a lower liver dump, and burn the carbs that already has your sugar up in the 300's causing your liver to dump that much is not helping you rid your body of stored fats/carbs/ or glucose. In my opinion, which ain't worth much. I have been fighting my doctor to do what I feel is right so maybe I have gotten to opinionated. But I would tell that nurse to shove her ideas where the sun don't shine, and not to let the door hit her where the Good Lord split her. I wish you luck. And please ask these wonderful people their experances. This is the same kind of advice my dad got from his doctor, when his BG numbers started dropping on a low carb diet, " just eat more" I'm still mad about that and it's been over 15 year. And cost me my dad, not being here. ��
 

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Discussion Starter #11
When you say crash, are you referring to your BG level? How low is it going? It is not dangerously low dropping into the 60s or 50s, if it doesn't continue to keep dropping. But one can experience the same feelings and symptoms dropping from 300 to 200 quickly, a false hypo, as someone having a real hypo event. The false hypo is not life threatening, but may make you feel like it is.
I have misunderstood. I have no idea how low my BG goes during exercise. I have just assumed that when it ends up higher than when I began, that it got below 70 and then rebounded. I was not familiar with the idea of a "false hypo". But I don't commonly engage in this sort of foolishness...jacking up my BG number just to exercise.

In recent months I have noticed a need to consume some carbs if I was going for a walk around 15-20 min at the mall. If I didn't do this I would return home and find my BG # had elevated from what was really a moderate amount of exercise. The problem with my work-outs is just a more exaggerated version of my walk-around experience.

What I should have been doing months ago is getting myself in better shape. If I had been doing an hour of exercise every day, I would be able to burn fat today. I would never have had to consume extra carbs just for a 15-20 min walk.

I'm going to have a talk with the nurse when I go for my workout tomorrow. The solution is not feeding into my body enough carbs that I can continue to only burn glucose. I need to make the leap to burning fats.

Some time ago, I felt I needed to build up my legs. I was feeling unsafe as I went down stairs. So, I started working with a leg bench. I noticed my BG would come down incredibly after a workout. But in just a few days, the drop quickly became much less significant. As the conditioning in my legs came up, they became better at burning fat and I no longer got the big benefit of sugar burning from a leg workout. I was disappointed. But what I was not realizing was that a strength workout was rapidly making me into a fat burner instead of a sugar burning machine.
The problem with my cardiac rehab is that it is nearly totally aerobic. And maybe that is not the way to shift muscles to burning fat. I could be wrong. The two types of exercise could be equally good. But that the constantly increasing work they have me doing is masking the progress I am making. I need to do some research.
 

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I have just assumed that when it ends up higher than when I began, that it got below 70 and then rebounded.
Perhaps it would be helpful to take the time to test your BG during exercise at least a couple times to see what is happening.

The term "false hypo" is used to describe how one feels, rather than what is actually happening. The shakiness etc. typical of a real hypo (below 60) can come on when one's BG is usually higher and it comes down quite a bit (i.e.: being in the +200s and then coming down to more normal levels).
 

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Another thought is that the body can convert to burning fat, but it takes some time. Sometimes up to three weeks of eating LCHF for the body to make the switch. Everytime one carbs-up, it delays the process.

Another thought is that it may not be your liver that is causing the rise in BG but just the normal release of glucose from the muscles - especially since you experience this rise even with mild exercise. I have read on the forum in the past from members that they have this same problem. But none of them talked of carb-loading as a viable "treatment".
 

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This is a hard post to understand, so thank you to the moderators who have explained some of the statements. I've never heard of "crashing blood sugars," and I'm still not sure what it means.

Also, what about "the liver had to kick in some glucose"? The liver responds to insulin by absorbing glucose. Is that what "kick in" means? Sorry, but as a newbie myself, I'm trying to learn as much as I can, and I'm not smart enough to understand some of these posts.
 

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I have misunderstood. I have no idea how low my BG goes during exercise. I have just assumed that when it ends up higher than when I began, that it got below 70 and then rebounded. I was not familiar with the idea of a "false hypo". But I don't commonly engage in this sort of foolishness...jacking up my BG number just to exercise.

In recent months I have noticed a need to consume some carbs if I was going for a walk around 15-20 min at the mall. If I didn't do this I would return home and find my BG # had elevated from what was really a moderate amount of exercise. The problem with my work-outs is just a more exaggerated version of my walk-around experience.

What I should have been doing months ago is getting myself in better shape. If I had been doing an hour of exercise every day, I would be able to burn fat today. I would never have had to consume extra carbs just for a 15-20 min walk.

I'm going to have a talk with the nurse when I go for my workout tomorrow. The solution is not feeding into my body enough carbs that I can continue to only burn glucose. I need to make the leap to burning fats.

Some time ago, I felt I needed to build up my legs. I was feeling unsafe as I went down stairs. So, I started working with a leg bench. I noticed my BG would come down incredibly after a workout. But in just a few days, the drop quickly became much less significant. As the conditioning in my legs came up, they became better at burning fat and I no longer got the big benefit of sugar burning from a leg workout. I was disappointed. But what I was not realizing was that a strength workout was rapidly making me into a fat burner instead of a sugar burning machine.
The problem with my cardiac rehab is that it is nearly totally aerobic. And maybe that is not the way to shift muscles to burning fat. I could be wrong. The two types of exercise could be equally good. But that the constantly increasing work they have me doing is masking the progress I am making. I need to do some research.
I try to eat 30 or less grams of carbs per day. There may be some days I eat more, some days less. I try to get in 12,000 steps a day and some days I ride a bike. Most of my rides are 15+ miles but it would not be unusual to go 40-50 miles. If I know I'm going to ride farther, I put an extra water bottle on my bike. I don't eat extra for a bike ride, but do make a protein drink when I get back.
 
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mbuster....have you ever tested your blood sugar after these long workouts? I am curious as my BS always raises when I do anything real physical, including working out...!
 

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mbuster....have you ever tested your blood sugar after these long workouts? I am curious as my BS always raises when I do anything real physical, including working out...!
I've had it go up and I've had it go down and don't know what it will be until I test. Usually when I ride and get hot (I mean a little more than just sweaty) my BG, more often than not, goes up.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I had a crash or Hypoglycemia on workout sessions 1, 4 and 5. On sessions 2 and 3 I had BG drops of 95 and 125. Then on session #6 I suddenly came up with a drop of only 50 points on the meter. The only thing I did different was to work in some weight training on the theory that this would improve ability of my muscles to burn fat...faster than the aerobic workouts I am doing at Cardiac Rehab. I can't say for sure that this is what turned the trick. But I accomplished a fairly quick turnaround. Alternately, it may be that the body will make the change over to burning fats when it is under the pressures of recurrent Hypos. Hard to say for sure.
 
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