[Mr Peepers]

I deal with many diabetics daily, a good number of the residents here are type 2 diabetics which is maintained with Metformin or Janumet. We ask them every day if they feel sick to their stomach or weak dizzy or sweaty with a sugar highs or lows. Most, if not all of them tell the staff they don't have these symptoms at all.

Unless a resident is using their monitor to test their levels a few times a day, these people do not have physical symptoms that would tell them they are either high or low in sugar at any given moment. Basically ... they coast on the unknown. If they have any discomfort or symptoms they are often ignored.

Some believe the medication they take is helping them maintain a decent sugar level, even though they see numbers often 15.0 and higher a few times daily.

One lady said to me, she had a heart attack a few years ago, she said she still feels pain in her chest a few times weekly and tries to eat well to keep from having another heart attack. She doesn't believe her diabetes has any affect on her heart because she has no physical problems or pain in her body telling her that her sugar is high/low.

Out of sight ... out of mind, is what I am hearing with most people who don't know what is happening with this medical problem. They don't believe their diabetes is affecting them physically, even when they see they have ulcers and damaged legs and feet. Their legs and feet might be a slightly painful but they think or feel its just a part of aging.

Doctors use to say ''High Blood Pressure is the silent killer.''

I think Diabetes is the NEW ''SILENT KILLER,'' the lack of physical discomfort and symptoms in some type 2 diabetics tends to make a person feel like all is good.

If I take my pills and I don't feel different ... I'm good! Right?


I look forward to everyone's thoughts on this.

 

[mbuster]

Type 2 diabetes is pretty slow on doing its damage and symptoms kind of sneak up on you, usually taking years for the damage to be done. I don't think many doctors are telling us that either. Nor are they telling us that most of the damage can be stopped/undone if we would simply reduce the carbs we eat. Instead many doctors just push taking a medication and unfortunately many of us are happy with that. There is such a lack of education on the medical services and patients in regards to type 2 diabetes. Diabetes used to be something that happened to us later in life, but things are going to have to change as more and more people are being diagnosed at younger ages.

 

[itissteve]

If I take my pills and I don't feel different ... I'm good! Right?

Short answer, no. mbuster is absolutely correct in stating that many of the worst effects of T2 diabetes aren't felt until it's too late to do anything to head them off. At that point they may be addressed, but the fix rarely is ever as good as not having the symptom to start with and sometimes a complete fix is not possible.

Our bodies change as we age and experience other things (pregnancy, prolonged courses of treatment with some medications, stress, etc.) so just sticking with the dosage of medication that was first prescribed doesn't mean it's sufficient now (or maybe that it ever was). We have had posters on this site who took their pills despite BG readings that should have them considering additional steps and... well, they're just not at the point where they want to change enough. Maybe by the time the circulatory and neurological problems become visible, they will. But by then it will be too late to stave off the worst of it.

 

[GypsyQueen]

I deal with many diabetics daily, a good number of the residents here are type 2 diabetics which is maintained with Metformin or Janumet. We ask them every day if they feel sick to their stomach or weak dizzy or sweaty with a sugar highs or lows. Most, if not all of them tell the staff they don't have these symptoms at all.

Unless a resident is using their monitor to test their levels a few times a day, these people do not have physical symptoms that would tell them they are either high or low in sugar at any given moment. Basically ... they coast on the unknown. If they have any discomfort or symptoms they are often ignored.

Some believe the medication they take is helping them maintain a decent sugar level, even though they see numbers often 15.0 and higher a few times daily.

One lady said to me, she had a heart attack a few years ago, she said she still feels pain in her chest a few times weekly and tries to eat well to keep from having another heart attack. She doesn't believe her diabetes has any affect on her heart because she has no physical problems or pain in her body telling her that her sugar is high/low.

Out of sight ... out of mind, is what I am hearing with most people who don't know what is happening with this medical problem. They don't believe their diabetes is affecting them physically, even when they see they have ulcers and damaged legs and feet. Their legs and feet might be a slightly painful but they think or feel its just a part of aging.

Doctors use to say ''High Blood Pressure is the silent killer.''

I think Diabetes is the NEW ''SILENT KILLER,'' the lack of physical discomfort and symptoms in some type 2 diabetics tends to make a person feel like all is good.

If I take my pills and I don't feel different ... I'm good! Right?


I look forward to everyone's thoughts on this.

Thank you for your post, Mr. Peepers. You are right on! I am hypervigilant about how I feel. I get very scary vertigo spells, out of the blue; sometimes even lose my balance. When I take my sugar it has usually been on the higher side. My mom was diabetic, and she frequently complained about feeling dizzy. When the sugar was checked, sure enough, it was high. Doctors are the ones, I have found, who ignore our complaints about symptoms that they choose to not co-relate to Diabetes. I have complained to every single doctor I have had and asked outright, "could it be the sugar?" My endocrinologist recently told me straight out, "no, it has nothing to do with it." So, it is up to us to stay on top of it. Thank you again. The first post I have seen about this, and again, you "hit the nail on the head."

 

[GypsyQueen]

Type 2 diabetes is pretty slow on doing its damage and symptoms kind of sneak up on you, usually taking years for the damage to be done. I don't think many doctors are telling us that either. Nor are they telling us that most of the damage can be stopped/undone if we would simply reduce the carbs we eat. Instead many doctors just push taking medication and unfortunately many of us are happy with that. There is such a lack of education on the medical services and patients in regards to type 2 diabetes. Diabetes used to be something that happened to us later in life, but things are going to have to change as more and more people are being diagnosed at younger ages.

I agree with you, mbuster. My beef is with myself first, because once I educate myself (even though I will always have many questions), it is up to me to take care of myself. However, if and when doctors mislead or do not provide the sufficient information that THEY HAVE, then we, as patients, are unable to care for ourselves as we would in order to prevent further damage to the eyes and other organs. I can't tell you how many times doctors have gone silent on me when I have asked probing questions. They have had trials they've asked me to participate in and when I ask how much they get paid for it, they go silent. There is too much information being withheld from Diabetics, in my opinion, even in 2022. This has got to STOP.

 

[itissteve]

Doctors are the ones, I have found, who ignore our complaints about symptoms that they choose to not co-relate to Diabetes.

Then there are the doctors that blame diabetes for anything else wrong with us. This, I understand from others with chronic conditions, is not uncommon. "Doctor, my legs hurt when I walk a long time." "Must be your <chronic condition>" 😒

There are good doctors out there. They're worth pushing to find. But most got a week or so of education about diabetes however many years ago they graduated from medical school -- and virtually none about nutrition -- and diabetes simply is not a condition they've kept up on (among the firehose of illnesses and diseases they can try to keep up on).

It would be nice if more doctors took a more holistic approach to diabetes rather than just medicating it, though, especially since the increased incidence of diabetes in many countries seems to indicate that the treatment modes for the last umpty years certainly aren't making things better.

GypsyQueen, welcome to the site! It sounds like you've had a fair amount of experience in managing your diabetes. Could we ask you to go over to our New Member Introductions forum and tell us a little more about yourself?

 

[Mr Peepers]

Type 2 diabetes is pretty slow on doing its damage and symptoms kind of sneak up on you, usually taking years for the damage to be done. I don't think many doctors are telling us that either. Nor are they telling us that most of the damage can be stopped/undone if we would simply reduce the carbs we eat. Instead many doctors just push taking a medication and unfortunately many of us are happy with that. There is such a lack of education on the medical services and patients in regards to type 2 diabetes. Diabetes used to be something that happened to us later in life, but things are going to have to change as more and more people are being diagnosed at younger ages.

I agree with this, especially with the doctors pushing medication.

Educating people is hard especially if the person is older and set in their ways. Medication dosages are often not followed by some older folks and this is a challenge. Pharmacists often print out a page with diet and food recommendations to a patient to help them follow with a new medication for diabetes. Often I see these recommendations or instructions thrown away and the patient will take their medication the way they want. Not the way its suppose to be taken.

I can understand why a senior would want to ignore advice ... they may be in their late 60's or early 70's. If they are sedentary with other illnesses, unable to walk or get any physicall exercise because its hard for them due to weight/obesity problems or they are just depressed and think ... ''Why change now? The damage is done."

Eating what I want at 68 years old is all I've got.

I understand this mentality perfectly.

 

[Mr Peepers]

Thank you for your post, Mr. Peepers. You are right on! I am hypervigilant about how I feel. I get very scary vertigo spells, out of the blue; sometimes even lose my balance. When I take my sugar it has usually been on the higher side. My mom was diabetic, and she frequently complained about feeling dizzy. When the sugar was checked, sure enough, it was high. Doctors are the ones, I have found, who ignore our complaints about symptoms that they choose to not co-relate to Diabetes. I have complained to every single doctor I have had and asked outright, "could it be the sugar?" My endocrinologist recently told me straight out, "no, it has nothing to do with it." So, it is up to us to stay on top of it. Thank you again. The first post I have seen about this, and again, you "hit the nail on the head."

Thank you for the reply and telling me what you have felt with symptoms and dealing with a physician or endoc.

Do you suppose a physician or an endoc think that all type 2 diabetics are the same? If you have type 2 diabetes and are a reasonable weight and are physically active at 60 years old, will you and your medical pains or aches be the same as a 60 year old type 2 diabetic who is physically unable to walk or move well and is overweight by 100 pounds and maybe suffered 2 heart attacks in their life? What if that person is on other meds for high blood pressure or cholesterol?

Not everyone is exactly the same medically.

Financial stability will and does predict how a person can live. A senior in their own apartment who has a small pension/fixed income and lives in a Rent Geared to Income Apartment building is more concerned with paying rent, paying for a telephone so they can call 911 for emergency's and be in contact with needed services. They also want something like Cable tv, as they may not be able to afford or even know how to use a computer. They may not have a car or go to concerts movies or even have a meal/dinner out with a friend of family member. They may not be able to buy healthy grocery's and will buy inexpensive food that is bad for them ... but that's all they can afford.

This will affect anyone and everyone differently, your family support or outside support will all reflect on the way this illness will hamper you and your life physically and mentally.

I don't understand why a physicians or endocrinologists or even a dietician don't see this.

 

[Mr Peepers]

I agree with you, mbuster. My beef is with myself first, because once I educate myself (even though I will always have many questions), it is up to me to take care of myself. However, if and when doctors mislead or do not provide the sufficient information that THEY HAVE, then we, as patients, are unable to care for ourselves as we would in order to prevent further damage to the eyes and other organs. I can't tell you how many times doctors have gone silent on me when I have asked probing questions. They have had trials they've asked me to participate in and when I ask how much they get paid for it, they go silent. There is too much information being withheld from Diabetics, in my opinion, even in 2022. This has got to STOP.

Maybe having a doctor who is living with Type 2 or Type 1 diabetes would be able to advise a patient of how to deal with this illness.

I would love to hear how a doctor with diabetes would live and eat day to day, they obviously know what they need to do to keep their sugar under control. They also have an income that can make this possible.

Most physicians don't care about their patients life style here in Canada. Health care is provided for free. The more patients a doctor sees daily they make more money. Do they take time in a 10 minute visit to advise a patient what they need to do with diet or lifestyle changed? NOPE ... they rush the person in and give them a repeat prescription of what ever meds are needed and the patient is forgotten once they are out the door. Pains and aches are ignored, sometimes a physician will examine someone's feet and suggest some meds if they see ulcers or problems. Sometimes a physician will take a blood pressure reading and weigh the patient. (this is to appease the Government who pays for this examination) Shoddy practice? YES!

The doctor isn't really helping much other then giving medication and they often don't insist the patient follow the medication precisely and follow with a proper diet and exercise. They really don't care ... they leave it all up to the person who has diabetes to get info to help them control their illness. If you are 20 or 30 or 40 ... its easy to look up help and read all you can about this and make a change.

If you are 60 and older and don't have access to this information ... you don't have a chance. If you are 60 or older and poor. You are doomed.

I applaud all the members of this forum who have the ability to read up any info you can online or elsewhere. I love that there is a forum here with many members from many walks of life who have shared advice and ideas with diet to help you maintain a healthier life while living with diabetes.

 

[itissteve]

One of the things I've learned about medical people is that they are, by and large, a cautious lot. "The way we do things" is hugely important, as is the weight of established practice. Changing any of them is about as easy as changing the direction of the tide. It can (and does) happen. It just happens very slowly and seems to require evidence that pretty much invalidates what was held to be true before.

Canadian medicine sounds much like USian medicine, with the key differences being Canadian care is not tied so much to employment or individual payers. It still rewards "efficiency" in the form of seeing as many patients as possible. So it's little surprise that the doctor breezes in, applies advice that's largely worked for decades (at least it hasn't killed anyone right away), and it's off to the next patient. Add in the influence of money (completely different conversation) and what happens is almost predictable.

Some of the science is arguable. One of my friends is a GP and he likes to see his diabetic patients keep their A1c around 7 on the theory that they have more of a cushion before they crash from hypoglycemia. From that perspective, 7 is a good number (but prompts the question of whether 8 would be even better). The guideline completely ignores those of us who have the ability/discipline/whatever to maintain very tight control of our BG and don't spike or crash and would prefer to stay in the 5.x or 6.x range.

Unfortunately, as my experience with many diabetics (not on this forum) attests, most diabetics do not maintain very tight control of their BG. Either they have been told (and believe) they can eat anything they want as long as they keep up with their meds or they've made the choice to let their BG fluctuate because they have other priorities or values.*

The thing is that an A1c of 7.x will take some time until you feel the effects while a BG of 50 or 60 can have you dead very quickly if not addressed right away. So what's safest for most people? Especially people who find it tough (it is tough) to give up the sweets and starches and beer. Aim for high and hope for the best even if it chips away at good health for the next several years.

I'm glad there is the information and support here for some alternatives. It is not the easy road to take at first but it becomes easier when, later on, we're dealing with fewer of the medical complications of diabetes. While I'm a little leery of "do your own research" because most people do not understand statistics or recognize good science, the better informed we are about our own health, the more pro-active we can be in representing ourselves and taking care of ourselves.


* As someone currently going through a months-long rough patch brought on by some family (medical) emergencies who knows he should stress less and exercise more -- but still doesn't -- I get that. At least I'm still eating properly.

 

[mbuster]

As far as diabetic doctors, some do deal with it better than others.
For Type 1s you might check out Dr. Richard Bernstein.
For Type 2s you might check out Dr. Ken Berry.
There are others, but not enough that truly understand

 

[GypsyQueen]

Thank you for the reply and telling me what you have felt with symptoms and dealing with a physician or endoc.

Do you suppose a physician or an endoc think that all type 2 diabetics are the same? If you have type 2 diabetes and are a reasonable weight and are physically active at 60 years old, will you and your medical pains or aches be the same as a 60 year old type 2 diabetic who is physically unable to walk or move well and is overweight by 100 pounds and maybe suffered 2 heart attacks in their life? What if that person is on other meds for high blood pressure or cholesterol?

Not everyone is exactly the same medically.

Financial stability will and does predict how a person can live. A senior in their own apartment who has a small pension/fixed income and lives in a Rent Geared to Income Apartment building is more concerned with paying rent, paying for a telephone so they can call 911 for emergency's and be in contact with needed services. They also want something like Cable tv, as they may not be able to afford or even know how to use a computer. They may not have a car or go to concerts movies or even have a meal/dinner out with a friend of family member. They may not be able to buy healthy grocery's and will buy inexpensive food that is bad for them ... but that's all they can afford.

This will affect anyone and everyone differently, your family support or outside support will all reflect on the way this illness will hamper you and your life physically and mentally.

I don't understand why a physicians or endocrinologists or even a dietician don't see this.

I completely agree with you. Doctors are not bred to be particularly "empathetic" otherwise maybe, they'd fall apart? However, it is their duty to see each patient and provide medical care to them considering the whole picture. If they know that their patient fits into certain categories, as above (heartbreaking to me), then the doctor should consider that. Although we are all different, and doctors are different, even by geographical areas they are different, I still think (based on my experience) that the medical community is not set up to pay as much importance to chronic diseases, such as diabetes. I once was 250# and the doctor not once told me that I could get diabetes, given my elevated numbers and family history. Same for others I saw throughout that time. No mention of healthy diet, exercise...nothing. So, you see, it wasn't just one doctor. Getting patients "healthy" is not a priority, Imo, and based on my experience. I saw it with my mom throughout her lifetime, and now me. Thank you, I WILL be visiting the "Introduce yourself" area to share and say HI to everyone there!

 

[Jenny319B]

I deal with many diabetics daily, a good number of the residents here are type 2 diabetics which is maintained with Metformin or Janumet. We ask them every day if they feel sick to their stomach or weak dizzy or sweaty with a sugar highs or lows. Most, if not all of them tell the staff they don't have these symptoms at all.

Unless a resident is using their monitor to test their levels a few times a day, these people do not have physical symptoms that would tell them they are either high or low in sugar at any given moment. Basically ... they coast on the unknown. If they have any discomfort or symptoms they are often ignored.

Some believe the medication they take is helping them maintain a decent sugar level, even though they see numbers often 15.0 and higher a few times daily.

One lady said to me, she had a heart attack a few years ago, she said she still feels pain in her chest a few times weekly and tries to eat well to keep from having another heart attack. She doesn't believe her diabetes has any affect on her heart because she has no physical problems or pain in her body telling her that her sugar is high/low.

Out of sight ... out of mind, is what I am hearing with most people who don't know what is happening with this medical problem. They don't believe their diabetes is affecting them physically, even when they see they have ulcers and damaged legs and feet. Their legs and feet might be a slightly painful but they think or feel its just a part of aging.

Doctors use to say ''High Blood Pressure is the silent killer.''

I think Diabetes is the NEW ''SILENT KILLER,'' the lack of physical discomfort and symptoms in some type 2 diabetics tends to make a person feel like all is good.

If I take my pills and I don't feel different ... I'm good! Right?


I look forward to everyone's thoughts on this.

Taking meds is good but you should also do some lifestyle changes like exercising and eating healthier. You may also add some supplements to your diet because sometimes when we restrict food we are missing out on other nutrients and vitamins. Good luck on your diabetes journey.

 

[Lee_Bo]

I go to the doc every 6 months for a checkup and med refills. I’m also on a weight journey loss that’s helping with my T2 and high blood pressure.

Just because you feel ok doesn’t mean you are ok. My father “felt fine” all his life. By the time the cancer was discovered, it was too late.

I’ve said this before and I’ll continue to preach it until the day I die;

See a doctor regularly. Get checked up even if you feel ok. I go every 6 months, to get my meds refilled and for blood work. I’ve been “fighting” T2 for 10 years and with a change in diet and exercise it’s been very manageable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[kyteflyer]

When I read about all the issues you have in North America, I am really glad I live in Australia. I had found a GP who was very aware of diabetes, with a T1 son, and a T2 wife, and it was wonderful. Never thought for a minute that he would leave and go to another practice, but he did… I followed him there after his replacement also moved on and I was pretty much out of the loop until quite recently. I now have a new doc, and he seems to be OK. Extra value, he was a pharmacist (and still is) before becoming a GP.

I guess what I am saying is this: You must have a good GP and have regular visits, and if you’re inclined to fall off the wagon, diet-wise, get yourself a CGM because it will be very helpful to see the results of your eating, in a pretty short time.

 

[cathyy]

One horrible factor contributing to this in the US has been the difficulty in getting more than 1 test strip per day if you are of Medicare age. If you are younger, you have to prove you need more than 3 per day. It gets expensive, and implies that the insurance companies don’t want you to have good control.

Thank goodness that Libre is now approved for Medicare, even if you are not on insulin. I like to think I helped that happen, with a long email to my Senator (who happened to be on the relevant committee) a couple years ago, in which I explained in detail how I was being punished and denied treatment because I had maintained such good control.

 

[etherea]

One horrible factor contributing to this in the US has been the difficulty in getting more than 1 test strip per day if you are of Medicare age. If you are younger, you have to prove you need more than 3 per day. It gets expensive, and implies that the insurance companies don’t want you to have good control.

I have paid for extras out of pocket, but shouldn't have to. My mother was eligible for more than one because she had NO control, but Medicare made her keep a log of blood sugar that she had to turn in each month to justify the extra strips.

 

[itissteve]

Agreed that not having more than one strip per day covered by insurance is shortsighted, but I figured it was just one more expense in life. I know it's not possible for everyone but I bought more strips on my own. Darned if I was going to let the insurance company dictate to me my BG control levels... $45 and I've got 200 strips I can use whenever I want. Just my opinion.

 

[etherea]

Agreed that not having more than one strip per day covered by insurance is shortsighted, but I figured it was just one more expense in life. I know it's not possible for everyone but I bought more strips on my own. Darned if I was going to let the insurance company dictate to me my BG control levels... $45 and I've got 200 strips I can use whenever I want. Just my opinion.

True! I've paid more for things I didn't need as much as I need test strips.