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Apparently this way of eating that I am doing with hwc and hotdogs is not a paleo woe and not that I was trying for paleo but I found myself on a message board about a keto diet that is NOT working for me anyways because after 3 weeks of this again with colored ketostix and not one pound of weight lost!

I went in search of some answers for this and I found this website that turned out to be a paleo website message board. The guy pretty much chewed me out for eating hotdogs and hwc because the "paleo did not eat this stuff"

I was told to eat fresh veggies and cook them myself (like I have time) and same with the meats and that 2600 calories a day is far too many unless I'm a body builder hahaha and that I should be eating only 3 times a day if I am doing this right and dropping weight like dead flies.

Sooooo once again I am screwing this up too. For one I do NOT like veggies except carrots, peas, corn and green beans. I'm not going to try to eat junk I hate and gags me so I'm so limited and this just makes this even more of a struggle. I'm out of my blood strips and i'm out of ketone strips and i'm out of patience with trying to lose weight.

I wish my Dr. had not taken me off the metformin because I WAS losing weight and now he will NOT put me back on it because he sees no reason for it with my a1c at 5.8 and my lipids all pretty good and even better now then before with the lchf but still the fact that remains is no weight loss and no inches loss either.

I'm just at the end of my rope with it all. I've been using MFP for about 3 weeks now too and found that my diet really sucks with no nutrition in it to really speak of. I've been doing some cardio but then fell sick again with another crappy head cold and cough since last Saturday that is stressing me out (can you tell) and driving me nuts and no that is NOT why i'm not losing weight, this has gone on lonnnnnng before this stupid cold.

I just don't know what to do anymore. i'm throwing in the towel on this stupid low carb high fat and just going to a simple plain ole low carb way of eating. I will never go back to eating carbs again to the extend that I was before because I want my numbers to still be good and I know they are but i'm just done trying to fricken hard, i'm wore out from all this and I need a total new plan and a total new attitude because this woe of has long well run its course and it is just plain and simply not working for weight loss which is a MUST...I am considered OBESE because I am 5'3 and I weigh 173 pounds though no one would ever say I am even an ounce over weight because it is well distributed but my waist is a 41 inches around my belly button so what fun is that even if you cant tell?? NONE! ok i'm done good bye and thanks to everyone that has had the patience of a saint to try to help me but time to move on and find something else that works for me! :pizza: haha I just seen that icon on here lol
 

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Discussion Starter #2
I just found this little quip:

My opinion (which I take from Dr. Eades) about how this happens is that you are eating enough fat that your body has no reason to use it's stored fat.

People will disagree with me on this.

Is this possibly my problem? I am eating about 200 to 230 grams of fat maybe more some days and my carbs around 35 but varies on some days but most come from macadamia nuts and sour cream maybe and my protein varies from 25 to 92 or so with maybe in the 60 to 70's average. my calories around 2300 to 2600 maybe too much fat like the above says???
 

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As far as I can tell, you have yet to "try" the ketogenic diet. Through all of this, have you ever calculated your macro-nutrient ratio and/or ketogenic ratio? As I've said before, unless you've maintained that in the target range - let's say ketogenic ratio over 1.75 or over 2.0 if you find you need more - for AT LEAST ONE MONTH consistently and with no fails, giving your metabolism time to adapt - then you really haven't tried anything except getting frustrated.

P.S. Paleo is an ideology not science, kind of like veganism or maybe its opposite. The idea is to eat only what we ate pre-agriculture (before about 10,000 years ago), period. Actual properties and harms or benefits of various foods only comes along AFTER the decision has been made and the dogma accepted that whatever foods came along after that are out of the question regardless of their actual properties.
 
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Omg and double ugh I don't get why you keep thinking that I'm doing this wrong!

As far as I can tell, you have yet to "try" the ketogenic diet. Through all of this, have you ever calculated your macro-nutrient ratio and/or ketogenic ratio? As I've said before, unless you've maintained that in the target range - let's say ketogenic ratio over 1.75 or over 2.0 if you find you need more - for AT LEAST ONE MONTH consistently and with no fails, giving your metabolism time to adapt - then you really haven't tried anything except getting frustrated.

P.S. Paleo is an ideology not science, kind of like veganism or maybe its opposite. The idea is to eat only what we ate pre-agriculture (before about 10,000 years ago), period. Actual properties and harms or benefits of various foods only comes along AFTER the decision has been made and the dogma accepted that whatever foods came along after that are out of the question regardless of their actual properties.
 

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The guy pretty much chewed me out for eating hotdogs and hwc because the "paleo did not eat this stuff"
Please imagine two men sitting across from each other during the Paleolithic era. One says to the other, "I'm thinking of trying the Late Holocene Diet, I hear they can live to be 100 years old!" For clarification, the Late Holocene Diet would be the 21st century diet, or what we eat now.

Please don't take diet zealots too seriously. The paleo diet, like most diets, has some rules that make sense and many that are arbitrary and based on shaky to no evidence. Avoiding processed foods and keeping your sugar low to none and watching your calories will generally get you the results you want. No need to argue ad nauseum on internet forums whether or not this or that particular herb is legitimately paleo or low carb or anything else.

Do what works for you. It's the results that matter, not whether or not you've properly adhered to The Rules of some ridiculous diet that some people have grabbed on to as a replacement for religion in their lives. If LCHF didn't work for you, just try low carb then. And the thing is, it doesn't even matter if you were following the rules of LCHF correctly and to the T. It doesn't matter because a diet is only good if it gets results, and that includes whether or not a person's ability to adhere to it can be counted on. Maybe low carb will work for you. Who really cares about the reasons, let the PubMed trolls worry about that. Your health is primary, the science behind it really is secondary to results.
 

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Thanks and that's the wisest thing I've heard all day!



Please imagine two men sitting across from ea ch other during the Paleolithic era. One says to the other, "I'm thinking of trying the Late Holocene Diet, I hear they can live to be 100 years old!" For clarification, the Late Holocene Diet would be the 21st century diet, or what we eat now.

Please don't take diet zealots too seriously. The paleo diet, like most diets, has some rules that make sense and many that are arbitrary and based on shaky to no evidence. Avoiding processed foods and keeping your sugar low to none and watching you calories will generally get you the results you want. No need to argue ad nauseum on internet forums whether or not this or that particular herb is legitimately paleo or low carb or anything else.
 

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Puppy, I don't have all the answers, but I weigh 340 lbs, and I am eating 2300 cals a day. 80 to 85 percent of those from fats. So, usually I am in the 180 to 190 grams of fat a day. My protein is usually around 75 to 90 grams.

With your weight around 165, I would think your cals are high, hence your macros are as well.

I think you are eating at almost a maintenance level of cals. Try a 20 to 25 percent deficit in cals.

I don't know what else to tell you.
 

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One other thing. I lost a lot of weight on the Atkins diet. I ended up eating a ton of meat, before I was type 2. If you don't do high fat, you have to replace the fat with protein and carbs. I think you know what that will do to your glucose levels.

Good luck with what you decide. It's tough to eat when you don't like so many foods. With you at 170 lbs, I think I would rather concentrate on my blood readings, and keeping my type 2 under control, than losing weight quickly.
 

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Puppy, we are tired of your sad attempts to not follow what we tell you. You have to have some patience and really give things a try. It doesn't work immediately and if you take some of the advice you've been given with care, it will work, honestly.

This isn't meant to hurt your feelings, but to let you know how hard we have tried to help you and how you've not tried our best advice and still complain how hard it is. No one told you it was easy.

Relax and take a deep breath and reread this whole thread!
 

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I agree with PigDog, there is no reason to eat almost 2600 calories. I don't think eating LCHF will give you the luxury of eating as many calories as you want. Try cutting back to about 2000/day. That should be sufficient calories and i think it will expedite your weight loss. Eating LCHF allows you to eat normal amounts of calories and still burn fat, but if you eat way too many calories and are not doing anything to burn them, i don't think you will lose weight. You have been eating 2600 calories on LCHF and have not gained any weight, if you tried eating that many calories filled with cabrs and protein, you would have most certainly gained weight. I wish you the best of luck..
 

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Puppy, the 2600 calories is what I use for maintenance. You yourself said that you only adhered to the correct macros on a daily basis for one day out of many. I know that the transition is hard. So, I feel you there. Cut back on the calories. You are going to be hungry. Hunger is a part of losing weight. Drink water in between meals. Stop grazing and snacking. You don't need to have snacks. You are not on any medication. Eat cleanly. Stop with the processed hotdogs. They don't seem to be doing you any good. Part of losing weight is being hungry. Get used to it. Metformin is an appetite suppressant. I know it's hard, at first, but since your BGs are in control, now it's time to lose weight. If you want this badly enough, you have to be all in. You are almost in the 'overweight' category. Don't quit now. No matter what diet you are on, whether it's low carb or LCHF, you are going to be hungry.

Also, I recommended the 2600 calories for the transition into LCHF for BG control. Since you are there now, just cut back on the calories while maintaining 80% Fat.
 

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Many of us start out with programmed diets, complete with recipes and menus for each meal and snack. South Beach, Atkins, Paleo (in its many variations) ...

All of them have great advantages, and each one is 1,000% (give or take) healthier than the standard diet. Great starting points, all of them! Trouble is, it's hard to live our daily lives on nothing but standard recipes. It seems easier than plotting our own path, but it's usually not sustainable as a permanent way of life.

This is why we talk about ratios in LCHF and keto. At first, ratios appear harder than a food and recipe list -- and I struggle with this, too, since I'm getting into keto only now (never thought I'd have any problem finding enough fat!) -- but, in time, the beauty of it is that we can apply it to any cuisine, any food.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
BEFORE I started tracking my calories on MFP I was eating way more then the 2600 calories. I thought nothing of eating macadamia nuts by the handfuls all day long thinking I was just getting fats and not realizing how many calories were in only 20 nuts. I figured that by cutting down to 2600 that that was a good thing but obvious not good enough. I'm sorry you people are tired of me, I'm going away anyways. I've asked the board to delete my account so thanks to everyone that has helped me and goodbye to those Ive irritated.
 

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thanks pigdog and you've been a lot of help the way. I have lowered my calorie input on the my fitness pal in the past but was not able to do it because I was hungry all the time. I'm told one should never be hungry with this way of eating, I'm told its normal to be hungry, I'm told people are tired of telling me, I come here for help and feel scolded like a child. You've been good and nice to me and I appreciate it and I thank you.

Puppy, I don't have all the answers, but I weigh 340 lbs, and I am eating 2300 cals a day. 80 to 85 percent of those from fats. So, usually I am in the 180 to 190 grams of fat a day. My protein is usually around 75 to 90 grams.

With your weight around 165, I would think your cals are high, hence your macros are as well.

I think you are eating at almost a maintenance level of cals. Try a 20 to 25 percent deficit in cals.

I don't know what else to tell you.
 

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I'm sorry you're offended, puppy. Everyone here genuinely cares and are trying to help you. I hope you don't go. These are great people, and we have all been through what you are going through.

If you do leave, I do wish you the best. I know you will succeed.
 

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I come here for help and feel scolded like a child.
Once you take a moment to reflect on the last months, which I hope you'll do, perhaps you'll remember the outpouring of support, energy, effort, caring, typed words - all which have come your way from members of this forum - and feel gratitude for their generosity of time, energy, caring ... and that's before even getting to the valuable content. It has been considerable.

It was given freely, and compassionately, with concern for the tremendous angst you repeatedly expressed.

That's all.
 

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Omg and double ugh I don't get why you keep thinking that I'm doing this wrong!
OK, I could be wrong true enough, but let's get some definitions straight. Keto-adaptation, where you really start getting the benefits, more or less requires:

1) A Keto ratio which is high enough. This varies from individual to individual but basically is somewhere around 1.5 to over 2.0. I can maintain at 1.75. Your mileage may vary. (Blood ketone strips are the ONLY way to know for sure.)

2) Above maintained all day every day for at least ONE MONTH. At this point significant keto-adaptation will have occurred, although it continues for several months after that.

3) NO EXCEPTIONS. None. A single day or even a single meal puts you back to SQUARE ONE. So, let's say you have a perfect record for 3 weeks but then depart by eating too much protein, too much carbs or too little fat. The clock is now back to ZERO. So basically a single error per month could equal complete failure. You would be low-carb or as Peter Attia once called it, in the "low-carb zone of misery", but not keto-adapted.

If you've done all that, I apologize for implying otherwise. But, from everything I've read, it didn't seem to me that you ever have.
 

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I know just how you feel Puppy.
Its so frustrating.
What I did was go to a Registered Dietician as I was going for every Quack Diet there was out there with no result.

By the way I,m new to the forum and from Australia.

Cheers
Darcy
 

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I know just how you feel Puppy.
Its so frustrating.
What I did was go to a Registered Dietician as I was going for every Quack Diet there was out there with no result.

By the way I,m new to the forum and from Australia.

Cheers
Darcy
It is possible to do LC/HF/Ketogenic under medical supervision. This is the way it really should be done. Unfortunately, the MDs willing/able to do this are still pretty few. Probably not more than a few dozen world-wide. If you're lucky enough to have one near you and are having trouble with ketogenic WOE, this would be a great idea.

You can search for one near you here.

Also, the Charlie Foundation has a finder for "Safe Ketogenic Hospitals" around the US. The intention is treatment for childhood epilepsy, but who knows they may help those pursuing ketosis for other health reasons. That's here.
 
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