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Discussion Starter #21
ok well I guess then that the amount of protein I eat would be my biggest down fall on a daily basis. I tend to go up and down on it because I fail to input first what I'm going to eat. I did use a blood meter once and my highest reading if I remember correctly was 1 but mostly was 5 and I know 5 barely is there and other then that it was "low" but mostly 5 over like a week I think because I only had a about 12 sticks. Right now I do eat ALOT of fat that ranges about 200 to 230 daily, is that not enough??? The protein like I said goes up and down but I'm working on that. One day is was about 25 and then another day it was up to 92 so usually somewhere in between is where it lies. I cant figure out them rations like you keep suggesting so instead I just eat more fats to what else I'm eating so I do keep trying and I will continue to keep trying. At this point I don't think I care anymore about ketosis I just want to keep my blood sugar good and lose some weight.

OK, I could be wrong true enough, but let's get some definitions straight. Keto-adaptation, where you really start getting the benefits, more or less requires:

1) A Keto ratio which is high enough. This varies from individual to individual but basically is somewhere around 1.5 to over 2.0. I can maintain at 1.75. Your mileage may vary. (Blood ketone strips are the ONLY way to know for sure.)

2) Above maintained all day every day for at least ONE MONTH. At this point significant keto-adaptation will have occurred, although it continues for several months after that.

3) NO EXCEPTIONS. None. A single day or even a single meal puts you back to SQUARE ONE. So, let's say you have a perfect record for 3 weeks but then depart by eating too much protein, too much carbs or too little fat. The clock is now back to ZERO. So basically a single error per month could equal complete failure. You would be low-carb or as Peter Attia once called it, in the "low-carb zone of misery", but not keto-adapted.

If you've done all that, I apologize for implying otherwise. But, from everything I've read, it didn't seem to me that you ever have.
 

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ok well I guess then that the amount of protein I eat would be my biggest down fall on a daily basis. I tend to go up and down on it because I fail to input first what I'm going to eat. I did use a blood meter once and my highest reading if I remember correctly was 1 but mostly was 5 and I know 5 barely is there and other then that it was "low" but mostly 5 over like a week I think because I only had a about 12 sticks. Right now I do eat ALOT of fat that ranges about 200 to 230 daily, is that not enough??? The protein like I said goes up and down but I'm working on that. One day is was about 25 and then another day it was up to 92 so usually somewhere in between is where it lies. I cant figure out them rations like you keep suggesting so instead I just eat more fats to what else I'm eating so I do keep trying and I will continue to keep trying. At this point I don't think I care anymore about ketosis I just want to keep my blood sugar good and lose some weight.
Just cut your calories, puppy, IF you want to lose weight. if not, you seem to at least be maintaining your weight, so keep doing what you're doing until you are ready to cut those calories. MFP calculates everything for you, and you know what to do. It's just a matter of doing it. At some point, you will be ready. You are not now, and that's ok.

You've made remarkable strides in controlling your BGs without meds. You should be proud of yourself. Maybe after the holidays you will be ready to try to lose weight again. You can't force yourself to be ready. You are either ready or you're not. Don't stress over it.
 

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Discussion Starter #23 (Edited)
so what is wrong with this ratio? This is a typical breakfast for me .

696 calories
carbs 11
fats 88
protein 15
This meal entails
1 egg, 1 egg yolk, 1/2 cup heavy whip cream and a pat of butter, real butter.

On a good day this will hold me over about 4 hours. This is what I try to maintain my macros at .
Later when I get hungry I will usually have a snack of 1/2 cup heavy whip cream and a serving of macadamia nuts.


It is possible to do LC/HF/Ketogenic under medical supervision. This is the way it really should be done. Unfortunately, the MDs willing/able to do this are still pretty few. Probably not more than a few dozen world-wide. If you're lucky enough to have one near you and are having trouble with ketogenic WOE, this would be a great idea.

You can search for one near you here.

Also, the Charlie Foundation has a finder for "Safe Ketogenic Hospitals" around the US. The intention is treatment for childhood epilepsy, but who knows they may help those pursuing ketosis for other health reasons. That's here.
 

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Puppy, I am highly sensitive to protein. I have to keep my numbers low because it will impact my glucose as well as blood ketones. Dr Bernstein, on his diet, says it is important to keep intake grams of protein the same each day. Jumping around with protein intakes doesn't work for me. I have to remain relatively constant on my numbers from meal to meal, and day to day.
 

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so what is wrong with this ratio? This is a typical breakfast for me .

696 calories
carbs 11
fats 88
protein 15
This meal entails
1 egg, 1 egg yolk, 1/2 cup heavy whip cream and a pat of butter, real butter.

On a good day this will hold me over about 4 hours. This is what I try to maintain my macros at .
Later when I get hungry I will usually have a snack of 1/2 cup heavy whip cream and a serving of macadamia nuts.
Of course, that's a very high KR, but what do you eat for the rest of the day? If there were two other meals just like that, I think you'd actually be deficient in protein. Are you full after that breakfast? It's not unlike mine, although less food and yours is C:5;P:7;F:88 (as percent of calories). Mine is more like C:5;P:15;F80 and my other meals might have sligtly less fat and more carbs and/or protein.

What strikes me as odd is being hungry after 4 hours. My absolute minimum to eat ANYTHING again is 6 hours. That would be a handful of nuts and coffee with cream but would be "borderline" with a feeling of stuffing myself. Eating only becomes comfortable past 8 hours. I wonder what is different here? I can't imagine putting anything in my mouth 4 hours after breakfast. Of course, I do eat a little over 1000 calories, though.

So, two questions come to mind: what are you CFP totals for the whole day and how many days in a row have you done this with zero slip-ups?
 

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Discussion Starter #26 (Edited)
I AM NOT sure how this is going to come out on your end because i've never done this before. This is the copy page from MFP from what i ate today with calories, carbs, fats and protein and the foods. I don't usually have Arbys but today i did. I only had the MEAT and the CHEESE from the mozzarella sticks but they 4 sticks had 21 protein but I only ate the cheese from 2 sticks which wasn't that much in the end so not sure how to calculate that:

November 24, 2013
Breakfast
Butter - Salted, 1 tbsp 102 0g 12g 0g 31mg 82mg 0g 0g
Egg Yolk (Carb Nite - Egg Yolk (17.0g), 17 g 54 1g 5g 3g 210mg 8mg 0g 0g
Egg, Large - 1 Large Egg, 2 egg 140 0g 10g 12g 370mg 140mg 0g 0g
Great Value - Heavy Whipping Cream (Carbs Included), 8 Tbsp 400 8g 40g 0g 160mg 40mg 0g 0g
Kroger - All Natural Sour Cream (Revised), 2 tbsp 60 1g 6g 1g 20mg 15mg 1g 0g
Birds Eye - Steam Fresh - Mixed Vegetables, 0.34 cup (90 grams) 30 5g 0g 1g 0mg 10mg 3g 1g
hamburger, 4 ounces 160 0g 8g 22g 0mg 0mg 0g 0g
Kroger - All Natural Sour Cream (Revised), 2 tbsp 60 1g 6g 1g 20mg 15mg 1g 0g
Lunch
Land O Lakes - Whipped Light Cream, Sweetened & Ultra-Pasterurized, 6 Tbsp 45 3g 3g 0g 12mg 0mg 3g 0g
Cream Cheese Muffin Low Carb, 3 serving 454 7g 39g 12g 245mg 460mg 4g 0g
Dinner
Arby's - Junior Roast Beef/No Bun, 2 Sandwich 160 0g 10g 16g 60mg 660mg 0g 0g
Arby's - Mozzarella Cheese Sticks (CHEESE ONLY OUT OF TWO) - 4 Pack (No Marinara Sauce), 68.5 grams 210 0g 11g 0g 0mg 0mg 0g 0g
snacks evening
Great Value - Heavy Whipping Cream (Carbs Included), 8 Tbsp 400 8g 40g 0g 160mg 40mg 0g 0g
Archer Farms - Roasted Macadamia Nuts - Salted, 1/4 cup 200 4g 21g 2g 0mg 120mg 1g 2g

TOTAL: CALORIES: 2,409 CARBS: 40g FATS: 209g PROTEIN: 84g




Of course, that's a very high KR, but what do you eat for the rest of the day? If there were two other meals just like that, I think you'd actually be deficient in protein. Are you full after that breakfast? It's not unlike mine, although less food and yours is C:5;P:7;F:88 (as percent of calories). Mine is more like C:5;P:15;F80 and my other meals might have sligtly less fat and more carbs and/or protein.

What strikes me as odd is being hungry after 4 hours. My absolute minimum to eat ANYTHING again is 6 hours. That would be a handful of nuts and coffee with cream but would be "borderline" with a feeling of stuffing myself. Eating only becomes comfortable past 8 hours. I wonder what is different here? I can't imagine putting anything in my mouth 4 hours after breakfast. Of course, I do eat a little over 1000 calories, though.

So, two questions come to mind: what are you CFP totals for the whole day and how many days in a row have you done this with zero slip-ups?
 

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I AM NOT sure how this is going to come out on your end because i've never done this before. This is the copy page from MFP from what i ate today with calories, carbs, fats and protein and the foods. I don't usually have Arbys but today i did. I only had the MEAT and the CHEESE from the mozzarella sticks but they 4 sticks had 21 protein but I only ate the cheese from 2 sticks which wasn't that much in the end so not sure how to calculate that:

November 24, 2013
Breakfast
Butter - Salted, 1 tbsp 102 0g 12g 0g 31mg 82mg 0g 0g
Egg Yolk (Carb Nite - Egg Yolk (17.0g), 17 g 54 1g 5g 3g 210mg 8mg 0g 0g
Egg, Large - 1 Large Egg, 2 egg 140 0g 10g 12g 370mg 140mg 0g 0g
Great Value - Heavy Whipping Cream (Carbs Included), 8 Tbsp 400 8g 40g 0g 160mg 40mg 0g 0g
Kroger - All Natural Sour Cream (Revised), 2 tbsp 60 1g 6g 1g 20mg 15mg 1g 0g
Birds Eye - Steam Fresh - Mixed Vegetables, 0.34 cup (90 grams) 30 5g 0g 1g 0mg 10mg 3g 1g
hamburger, 4 ounces 160 0g 8g 22g 0mg 0mg 0g 0g
Kroger - All Natural Sour Cream (Revised), 2 tbsp 60 1g 6g 1g 20mg 15mg 1g 0g
Lunch
Land O Lakes - Whipped Light Cream, Sweetened & Ultra-Pasterurized, 6 Tbsp 45 3g 3g 0g 12mg 0mg 3g 0g
Cream Cheese Muffin Low Carb, 3 serving 454 7g 39g 12g 245mg 460mg 4g 0g
Dinner
Arby's - Junior Roast Beef/No Bun, 2 Sandwich 160 0g 10g 16g 60mg 660mg 0g 0g
Arby's - Mozzarella Cheese Sticks (CHEESE ONLY OUT OF TWO) - 4 Pack (No Marinara Sauce), 68.5 grams 210 0g 11g 0g 0mg 0mg 0g 0g
snacks evening
Great Value - Heavy Whipping Cream (Carbs Included), 8 Tbsp 400 8g 40g 0g 160mg 40mg 0g 0g
Archer Farms - Roasted Macadamia Nuts - Salted, 1/4 cup 200 4g 21g 2g 0mg 120mg 1g 2g

TOTAL: CALORIES: 2,409 CARBS: 40g FATS: 209g PROTEIN: 84g

Perfect! KR = 2.0. CPF = 7:14:80.

Now for my second question, have you ever done that 30 days in a row? That's an excellent ketogenic diet (at least for that day). After a week or so of doing this consistently you should begin to keto-adapt. That adaptation will continue to improve for months.h But remember what I said about the possibility of falling back to square one.

You've got the ratios, now what's left is to do it consistently over a long period of time. Might be a good idea if you reach a point where you feel confident you've done it for more than two weeks to splurge on a few blood ketone strips and confirm.
 
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Discussion Starter #28
Wow! Thank you sooooo much! This is what I've been working on and doing for about 3 weeks now. I've been consistent but still have had a few fluctuations such as carbs too high one day and or protein too high or even too low but daily I'm working on it and I know I need tweaking still but I'm really working hard on it! I was afraid you were going to say it was too much protein though. Eating all the fats is not hard to do but keeping the calories and protein down is my biggest struggle yet but I'm not giving up. I will order some more blood ketone strips so I can monitor correctly and you have no idea how much this means to me to hear you say I got it right FINALLY! LOL


Perfect! KR = 2.0. CPF = 7:14:80.

Now for my second question, have you ever done that 30 days in a row? That's an excellent ketogenic diet (at least for that day). After a week or so of doing this consistently you should begin to keto-adapt. That adaptation will continue to improve for months.h But remember what I said about the possibility of falling back to square one.

You've got the ratios, now what's left is to do it consistently over a long period of time. Might be a good idea if you reach a point where you feel confident you've done it for more than two weeks to splurge on a few blood ketone strips and confirm.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
What do all the other numbers mean though following the 2.0?


Perfect! KR = 2.0. CPF = 7:14:80.

Now for my second question, have you ever done that 30 days in a row? That's an excellent ketogenic diet (at least for that day). After a week or so of doing this consistently you should begin to keto-adapt. That adaptation will continue to improve for months.h But remember what I said about the possibility of falling back to square one.

You've got the ratios, now what's left is to do it consistently over a long period of time. Might be a good idea if you reach a point where you feel confident you've done it for more than two weeks to splurge on a few blood ketone strips and confirm.
 

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Nice job puppy. The numbers I assume are ratios, carbs to protein to fats. It means you ate twice as much protein as carbs, and roughly 6 times more fats as protein, I think :). Anyway, like Mr Morgan said, be consistent.
 

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What do all the other numbers mean though following the 2.0?
That just carbs, protein and fat as percentage of total calories.
 
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Discussion Starter #32
Thank You Pigdog!

Nice job puppy. The numbers I assume are ratios, carbs to protein to fats. It means you ate twice as much protein as carbs, and roughly 6 times more fats as protein, I think :). Anyway, like Mr Morgan said, be consistent.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
I could eat a 1000 calorie breakfast or any meal and still be hungry in about 4 hours or so. Sometimes it just isn't the amount of calories but the substance of the food like how heavy the meal is, the heavier the better. For years when I was on a different beta blocker then I am on now I was starving every two hours literally! I could not ever get enough to eat and thus I gained a lot of weight and have not been able to lose it and it has been about 3 years now. I'm really happy if I can go 4 hours between meals, I'm also a snacker so that don't help much either, I love to snack! I make sure I include my snacking though in my daily mix.

Also just wondering about keto breath. I always have a funny taste in my mouth but not quite like acetone but kind of fruity because I cant really explain it, its not real bad but not real pleasant either but I could live without it. I brush, floss and use mouth wash and it goes away for a while but is strongest after a very high fat meal..so not sure if that is keto stuff or if I just need to see a dentist lol

Of course, that's a very high KR, but what do you eat for the rest of the day? If there were two other meals just like that, I think you'd actually be deficient in protein. Are you full after that breakfast? It's not unlike mine, although less food and yours is C:5;P:7;F:88 (as percent of calories). Mine is more like C:5;P:15;F80 and my other meals might have sligtly less fat and more carbs and/or protein.

What strikes me as odd is being hungry after 4 hours. My absolute minimum to eat ANYTHING again is 6 hours. That would be a handful of nuts and coffee with cream but would be "borderline" with a feeling of stuffing myself. Eating only becomes comfortable past 8 hours. I wonder what is different here? I can't imagine putting anything in my mouth 4 hours after breakfast. Of course, I do eat a little over 1000 calories, though.

So, two questions come to mind: what are you CFP totals for the whole day and how many days in a row have you done this with zero slip-ups?
 
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