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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi All. Type 1 for over 30 years. I have tried everything to be able to wake up with a normal BS to no avail. My doctor asked me to switch from Lantus before bed to Levemir twice a day. I still wake up with a morning high. I got used to setting my alarm to wake up early and take 5u of Novolog as a bolus then go back to sleep, which was working, but kind of lame. Does anyone with this problem have the magic fix? What do you think about Lantus VS Levemir?
 

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Having The Same Issue

Can someone tell me why I would go to bed with a 131 and then wake up with a 147? It makes no sense since I haven't eaten in those hours. Is this normal? :confused:
 

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First thing meters are not exact. They can be up to 20% off. So a 131 and 147 is not a big difference. Second, even though you are not eating your body produces all sorts of hormones while we are sleeping that signal liver to convert stored glycogen into glucose. I find trying to get your bg as low as possible before bed is the best defense against DP. I like my before bed numbers to be in the high 70's before bed.

q2quest,

Many Type 1's can be getting a reaction to lows during the night. This is called Somalgii Effect. It is a little different than Dawn Phenomenom. If you are going too low then your body produces extra glucagon sometimes giving you a reactive high. Try waking up at different times in the middle of the night and testing bg. Talk to your doctor about readjusting insulin . Also a late night snack sometimes prevents these kind of lows.

DP is produced by normal hormones like growth hormone, cortisol, adrenaline, etc. It happens to everyone but diabetics seem to get bigger bg spikes because they don't have enough insulin on board to deal with these spikes. Many people find using an insulin pump helps with DP. Sometimes it takes a little detective work to figure out if it is DP or Somolgii effect.
 

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First thing meters are not exact. They can be up to 20% off. So a 131 and 147 is not a big difference. Second, even though you are not eating your body produces all sorts of hormones while we are sleeping that signal liver to convert stored glycogen into glucose. I find trying to get your bg as low as possible before bed is the best defense against DP. I like my before bed numbers to be in the high 70's before bed.

q2quest,

Many Type 1's can be getting a reaction to lows during the night. This is called Somalgii Effect. It is a little different than Dawn Phenomenom. If you are going too low then your body produces extra glucagon sometimes giving you a reactive high. Try waking up at different times in the middle of the night and testing bg. Talk to your doctor about readjusting insulin . Also a late night snack sometimes prevents these kind of lows.

DP is produced by normal hormones like growth hormone, cortisol, adrenaline, etc. It happens to everyone but diabetics seem to get bigger bg spikes because they don't have enough insulin on board to deal with these spikes. Many people find using an insulin pump helps with DP. Sometimes it takes a little detective work to figure out if it is DP or Somolgii effect.
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High 70's??? I wish I could figure out how to do that! The best reading I got so far was a 123. I don't know how to get it lower than that.
 
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hi q2quest.
My endo told me to aim to have my BGL sitting on 7 (126) at bedtime to avoid hypo and liver dumping and get a good FBG in the morning. Well so far it mostly does work for me. Also he said to eat a snack at bedtime... maybe this is what is working too? But whatever it is I'm usually sitting between 4-6 (72-108) in the mornings. I use Lantus for basal and Apidra for bolus.
 

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onlymep said:
hi q2quest.
My endo told me to aim to have my BGL sitting on 7 (126) at bedtime to avoid hypo and liver dumping and get a good FBG in the morning. Well so far it mostly does work for me. Also he said to eat a snack at bedtime... maybe this is what is working too? But whatever it is I'm usually sitting between 4-6 (72-108) in the mornings. I use Lantus for basal and Apidra for bolus.
What kind of snack do you have right before bed Onlymep? I am having the same issue as Q2quest and have been raising my Lantus doseage.

Thanks,

Jeremy
 

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I'm curious, is medication the only way to bring the numbers down? Because I'm exercising and I think I'm eating all the right things and I still don't understand the high numbers. My doctor told me to keep my levels 150 and under, but that isn't even close to normal. I'm so confused about all this :confused:
 

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Hi Rosie. I think it all depends. I was able to bring my BGL down quite a bit by diet and exercise alone, but as a T1, needed insulin to really get it under control (which I would not say I am there yet). Seems like many different things work for different people.

- Jeremy
 

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Hi Rosie. I think it all depends. I was able to bring my BGL down quite a bit by diet and exercise alone, but as a T1, needed insulin to really get it under control (which I would not say I am there yet). Seems like many different things work for different people.

- Jeremy
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Thanks, Jeremy. I'm very new to this, so I don't know much about the differences between Type 1 and Type 2 other than 2 seems to be more self-inflicted through lifestyle. I keep thinking the only way Im going to do this is to not eat at all. It's incredibly frustrating.
 

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Thanks, Jeremy. I'm very new to this, so I don't know much about the differences between Type 1 and Type 2 other than 2 seems to be more self-inflicted through lifestyle. I keep thinking the only way Im going to do this is to not eat at all. It's incredibly frustrating.
Hi Rosie,

Well, I don't necessarily believe that type 2 is self inflicted through lifestyle. From what I have read, it can happen to anyone, any size. I think as you put weight on your body, any number of complications can manifest, so perhaps that does not help, but I am not sure they have absolute proof yet. So bottom line, don't blame yourself, instead just focusing on controlling it.

I have read some of your other posts on diet and can understand your frustration level. You definitely don't have to starve yourself. You just have to find the right balance. I remember when I was first diagnosed, I went through many of the same thoughts...what will I eat? What can't I eat? Etc... As many will profess on this forum, eating to your meter is the first step. Eat, test, repeat :) Stay away from the flour, sugar, grains, starches, sugary treats, etc. For me, I went to an atkins diet to start. I have modified this a bit now, but still keep it low carb. With insulin I can technically eat what I want as I could theoretically correct my BGL with the right dose, but I choose to be healthier, try to take less insulin if I can and go with fewer carbs. I keep to about 40-60 a day now. If you have weight to lose, as your weight goes down, you may find exercise and diet to become easier and easier. You may be able to slowly introduce certain foods back into your diet as well (again, to your meter).

Thanks,

Jeremy
 

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Hi Rosie,

Well, I don't necessarily believe that type 2 is self inflicted through lifestyle. From what I have read, it can happen to anyone, any size. I think as you put weight on your body, any number of complications can manifest, so perhaps that does not help, but I am not sure they have absolute proof yet. So bottom line, don't blame yourself, instead just focusing on controlling it.

I have read some of your other posts on diet and can understand your frustration level. You definitely don't have to starve yourself. You just have to find the right balance. I remember when I was first diagnosed, I went through many of the same thoughts...what will I eat? What can't I eat? Etc... As many will profess on this forum, eating to your meter is the first step. Eat, test, repeat :) Stay away from the flour, sugar, grains, starches, sugary treats, etc. For me, I went to an atkins diet to start. I have modified this a bit now, but still keep it low carb. With insulin I can technically eat what I want as I could theoretically correct my BGL with the right dose, but I choose to be healthier, try to take less insulin if I can and go with fewer carbs. I keep to about 40-60 a day now. If you have weight to lose, as your weight goes down, you may find exercise and diet to become easier and easier. You may be able to slowly introduce certain foods back into your diet as well (again, to your meter).

Thanks,

Jeremy
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Hi Jeremy,

Thanks for your insight. The thing is, I'm not even eating a lot of carbs - I would say less than 50 and the majority of them are coming from veggies. I do have a sweet tooth that I am trying to satisfy - and control - with very low carb/low sugar items. For example, sugar-free jello with 0 carbs/0 sugar, and maybe a dollop of whipped topping w/ 2 carbs and 1 g sugar. And yet just that spiked me from 116 to 146, so I am cutting out the whipped topping and trying again. Some cocoa-roast almonds took me down to a 136. So, it's very confusing. I am wondering if other things could be at play, like does stress affect a reading or maybe eating at a certain time?

I saw an earlier post - possibly from you? - about keeping a level of 70 before bedtime. I am wondering if that's something that can be accomplished only through meds - which I am hoping to avoid altogether - or if I should be eating anything in particular.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I have occasionally gotten low in the middle of the night, but that is usually if my Novolog dose was too high at bedtime for a snack, etc. I have confirmed that my BS levels remain stable until about four hours after I've been sleeping then they start rising. I wake up every morning between 250 and 330. I usually wake up early, take 5 units of Novolog and go back to sleep. I did that this morning and I still woke up with a 200 reading. I need an insulin that peaks heavily about 3 to four hours after going to bed and then tapers off after about 8 hours. That would be perfect. This has been going on for 25 years by the way.
 

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Rosie, I have to jump in here. Most people would be very satisfied with the BS levels you are complaining about. 147 is only slightly higher than normal. I have been insulin dependant for 32 years with BS levels spiking past 400 on occasion. Hard as I try to keep in perfect control life just gets in the way. My A1C numbers are usually around 6.6 to 7.0. This is not where I would like to be, but after 32 years I am still completely free of any complications which can afflict diabetics. So don't worry. Your BS levels seem great! You are doing all the right things. Also, I have noticed doctors can often be your worst enemy by placing doubt and worry where there should be praise and enthusiasm. Keep reading posts on this forum and asking questions and you will soon be a pro. :)
 

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Rosie, I have to jump in here. Most people would be very satisfied with the BS levels you are complaining about. 147 is only slightly higher than normal. I have been insulin dependant for 32 years with BS levels spiking past 400 on occasion. Hard as I try to keep in perfect control life just gets in the way. My A1C numbers are usually around 6.6 to 7.0. This is not where I would like to be, but after 32 years I am still completely free of any complications which can afflict diabetics. So don't worry. Your BS levels seem great! You are doing all the right things. Also, I have noticed doctors can often be your worst enemy by placing doubt and worry where there should be praise and enthusiasm. Keep reading posts on this forum and asking questions and you will soon be a pro. :)
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Thanks for talking me down. I think there's just a lot of misinformation out there. My diabetes education classes don't start until the 30th so until then I'm online figuring this stuff out. I keep getting the idea that anything over what's considered "normal" for non-diabetics is going to cause me to lose a foot or go blind. My goal is to lose the extra pounds (50) and hopefully that will help me stay off meds and maybe put this into remission. Honestly, I feel like a big baby complaining about my levels when you say you go up into the 400's. I'm glad to hear I'm not in any immediate danger. :D
 

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I'm curious, is medication the only way to bring the numbers down? Because I'm exercising and I think I'm eating all the right things and I still don't understand the high numbers. My doctor told me to keep my levels 150 and under, but that isn't even close to normal. I'm so confused about all this :confused:
Rosie, in the beginning we all get frustrated. I was dx'd in 2007 and it has only been in the last 8 months that I have got control over my bgs. I had to do lots of experimenting with different levels of meds, timing of taking meds and different amounts of carbs. I do exercise but nothing intense. In fact since I have lowered the intensity of my exercise I have gotten better bg control. For the past 4 years I have done some level of low carb. But it was not until I upped my metformin to the maximum and dropped my carbs to 30 a day that I saw a big difference. Then last summer I had a terrible reaction to another medication I was on that caused my bgs to soar to over 200+ and every muscle in my body to ache. My immue system was shot. I hunted for a diet that would rebuild my immune system and help my bgs. I came across a diet called THE DIET SOLUTION PROGRAM by Isabel de los Rios. I found it online and for a small fee you can download all the books and recipes. I figured it was worth it. The diet is based upon figuring out your metabolic type and balancing foods at meals. She recomends natural foods and meats nothing with homones , antibiotics or chemicals. So nothing sold in a can or a box. The only bread you can eat is sprouted grain bread. Wheat is a big no, no. Her diet actually gave me more food to eat at meals and I could barely finish it. One thing I noticed was that once I started her diet or way of eating, my bgs started to stabalise pretty fast. I was seeing numbers under 100 I had never seen before. Also she believes in eating real fat at every meal, so now I eat coconut oil 3 times a day. My husband who hates diet decided to do this with me and he loves it because he can eat so much real food. At his last appointment all his numbers had gone down. The nurse wanted to know his secret. He said real food. I am mad it just took me this long to find this way of eating and I will stick with it for the rest of my life. I have now lost most of the weight I need to and weigh in around 118 ( my college weight). I never go hungry and eat fantastic meals and even bake cookies, muffins and desserts.
 

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I have occasionally gotten low in the middle of the night, but that is usually if my Novolog dose was too high at bedtime for a snack, etc. I have confirmed that my BS levels remain stable until about four hours after I've been sleeping then they start rising. I wake up every morning between 250 and 330. I usually wake up early, take 5 units of Novolog and go back to sleep. I did that this morning and I still woke up with a 200 reading. I need an insulin that peaks heavily about 3 to four hours after going to bed and then tapers off after about 8 hours. That would be perfect. This has been going on for 25 years by the way.
It's not unusual for me to wake up to 200+ readings... and before I found this forum I'd never heard of DP. The only explaination that my doctor gave me was that my liver thought I was a larger person than I am and puts out too much sugar while I'm sleeping. Anyhow, I think, for me anyway, that it happens when I go low while I am sleeping. I still have problems with it, but it happens a lot less if I have a snack right before I go to sleep. I still on occassion will wake up in the middle of the night with a low, even though I ate a snack right before I went to sleep... sometimes when I've only been asleep for 3 or 4 hours. I actually seem to do better if I eat something with more carbs in it at bedtime. I usually eat a bag of microwave popcorn (34g carbs) as my bedtime snack, if my BGL is in the low to normal range. If my BGL is running a little high, I opt for a low-carb snack. The days I wake up to extreme highs is usual when I didn't have a snack at all before I went to sleep.
 
G

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What kind of snack do you have right before bed Onlymep? I am having the same issue as Q2quest and have been raising my Lantus doseage.

Thanks,

Jeremy
hi Jeremy
I usually try and make it a dairy snack most of the time (eg. no added sugar greek yoghurt with fruit in it). But also I can have cheese & crackers (3 small crackers), one slice of raisin toast, and whatever else I can find. Last night I just had half a glass of milk. I just make sure my snack has low GI carbs in it. I think this has been working for me.
 
G

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Thanks for talking me down. I think there's just a lot of misinformation out there. My diabetes education classes don't start until the 30th so until then I'm online figuring this stuff out. I keep getting the idea that anything over what's considered "normal" for non-diabetics is going to cause me to lose a foot or go blind. My goal is to lose the extra pounds (50) and hopefully that will help me stay off meds and maybe put this into remission. Honestly, I feel like a big baby complaining about my levels when you say you go up into the 400's. I'm glad to hear I'm not in any immediate danger. :D
Rosie... it's Ok to be concerned. :) But one thing I've learnt is that diabetes in itself can be stressful. Stress is no good for our BGLs either. I've noticed if I'm stressed, tired, sick, in pain, emotional, etc... my BGLs can soar without any food. Diet and exercise isn't the only thing to consider. It's all such a balancing act. Just try and take time to 'breath'.
 

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If you have been newly diagnosed, you must give it some time. I am still fighting the DP and I am going back to the Doc on the 11th and will probably talk insulin again. I too would love to see a number in the 70's but it does not happen. The best number I have been able to get is a 90. The morning numbers have come down from 160's to around 130 to 140 after I started taking actos with my metformin. Better but still not good. You will be confused a lot in the next few months and maybe years. The other night I indulged in some Chicken Fettuccine and after 1 hour was at 114. after 2 hours 109. Maybe it was the fat content in it. Spaghetti sends me soaring. You will learn a great deal from people here that have real life experiences. One tip: ignore what a dietician tells you. They are clueless!
 
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