[Rad Warrier]

"High levels of fat shut down a key enzyme that promotes glucose sensing in pancreatic beta cells -- revealing a pathway implicated in the type 2 diabetes epidemic". Interesting article.

Regards,
Rad

 

[Shanny]

This has certainly taken the cyber-medics by storm - nearly 3000 hits on Google already today! What are your thoughts, Rad?

 

[Rad Warrier]

This has certainly taken the cyber-medics by storm - nearly 3000 hits on Google already today! What are your thoughts, Rad?

Shanny, I have to admit that I am not strong in biochemistry, microbiology, or plain old biology. I am just awaiting more analysis from better informed people. Personally, I do not prefer high fat diets - moderation in everything is what I strive for. But what is moderate for me can be high or low for another person

Regards,
Rad

 

[wdmama]

Interesting read... but they don't define the type of high-fat diet... if it's the standard american diet - it's high in carbs and fat, processed foods, hydrogenated oil, high fructose corn syrup, etc. There is no indication of the type of fat or diet.

It is known that excess fat (in the body, not digested) impairs glucose sensitivity, so that is something else to consider.

Feeding mice a high fat diet - what kind of fat and did it make the mice obese?

However, if they can figure out how to preserve the GnT-4a function, that might be a step in the right direction.

 

[moon]

Personally, I do not prefer high fat diets -

I was talking about this with a friend last night. I said if diabetes wasn't an issue, and I could feel good on any diet I chose - I would gleefully flee back to my carbs of fruit, grains, crusty breads, but ... I'd like to keep a bit of my new-found bacon for flavoring

This isn't a whine, honest, but I do get tired of fat - the mouth-feel if nothing else. I need more variety in my diet to keep me from burning out. Before, I could eat risotto and fruit happily every day if need be.

 

[ColaJim]

moon

moon:

Well, if that is how you feel about your diet, maybe you should check out an insulin basal/bolus system so you would have more liberty to eat a more varied diet. Insulin does give a lot more freedom to choose.

ColaJim

I was talking about this with a friend last night. I said if diabetes wasn't an issue, and I could feel good on any diet I chose - I would gleefully flee back to my carbs of fruit, grains, crusty breads, but ... I'd like to keep a bit of my new-found bacon for flavoring

This isn't a whine, honest, but I do get tired of fat - the mouth-feel if nothing else. I need more variety in my diet to keep me from burning out. Before, I could eat risotto and fruit happily every day if need be.

 

[moon]

Well, if that is how you feel about your diet, maybe you should check out an insulin basal/bolus system so you would have more liberty to eat a more varied diet. Insulin does give a lot more freedom to choose.

Thanks Jim - valid suggestion. When I said needing more variety, I meant I have to vary my meals a lot more, constantly cook new/different things, because I get tired of the same thing a lot quicker.

I'm actually thinking of going in the opposite direction at some point this year - cutting back on metformin once my exercise has stepped up, weight more down, carbs more down - just to see. I'd be stoked if I could back down to 1000 mg metformin since I'm still not in the gastric clear with it. If not, I'll live w/ it.

 

[fgummett]

Here is an abstract of the published article (US $32 for full access) Nature Medicine - Pathway to diabetes through attenuation of pancreatic beta cell glycosylation and glucose transport

Eye-catching headline and they do (so far as I can tell) establish a connection between free fatty acids in the blood and "metabolic disease, including hyperglycemia, impaired glucose tolerance, hyperinsulinemia, hepatic steatosis and diminished insulin action in muscle and adipose tissues" BUT where is the connection between what we eat and "elevated levels of free fatty acids"?

As above my money is on the increased consumption of refined carbohydrates (possibly in large part fructose) in the diet as the cause of increased FFAs in the blood stream. It's high time we got past this simplistic idea that what we eat goes unaltered into our blood stream.

The USDA guidelines have made a significant impact... the statistics show people are eating less fat, so why is the problem just getting worse?

---

If you are looking for a critique of the article I'd point out it starts off with...

Newly diagnosed type 2 diabetics tend to have one thing in common: obesity.

which we know is not true in around 20% of cases so that puts a big fat hole in their follow-up assumptions.


Soon after it says...

"The identification of the molecular players in this pathway to diabetes suggests new therapeutic targets and approaches towards developing an effective preventative or perhaps curative treatment," Dr. Marth continued. "This may be accomplished by beta cell gene therapy or by drugs that interfere with this pathway in order to maintain normal beta cell function."

If diet is the cause, then why no mention of a dietary intervention? Jump straight to something patentable and profitable?


I'd like to know what they were feeding these mice thanks.

As for "high fat" I agree with you Rad.. it is a relative term and I think the way I eat is moderate and well balanced... much like my Grandparents ate... it is only seen as "high fat" when compared to the recent fat-phobic dogma. And by every health marker my Doctor tests, I am better of than I was when following the standard dietary guidelines.

 

[jwags]

I do think the type of fat makes a big difference. I avoided all fats for years before diabetes. I didn't eat meat, cheese, butter, etc. The only fats I ate were from vegetable oils. Of course I still got diabetes. Now I eat natural real fats and restrict my carbs. My bgs behave a lot better. I think our government has pushed us for years into avoiding fats and I do think that is the problem. The problem with research is how do you separate the fats people are eating from the higher carb diet that everyone eats. Ever since I had kids 32 years ago I carrried an extra small amount of weight. Of course most of it was in my belly. I now feel eating the wrong type of fats ( canola oil, vegetable oil, margerines and fake fats) attributed to it. Many of these oils oxidize when heated causing free radicals which promote disease. Going back to real fats ( butter, bacon fat, real dairy and coconut oil) has let me lose so much weight and become healthier.

 

[foxl]

It has been mentioned elsewhere this study was done in mice. Mice are herbivores, and a high-fat diet is not what they evolved to consume. Most of the species used in research were bred from animals evolved to consume grains.

Now, that may sound lame, we have heard this argument before.

But I happen to know that cats (obligate carnivores) who cease to eat for any reason for 24- 48 hours, are at risk to develop a fatty liver condition known as hepatic lipidosis. Yes, fatty liver. And it can kill them, fast. Is that different from how humans react in starvation? Yes, probably. And yet in the general scheme of things, cats' genes, and metabolism, are far closer to our own.

 

[wdmama]

I definitely think the type of fat makes a huge difference.

I ate low fat most of my life, still ended up diabetic.

Now that I eat high fat, my glucose is under control without medication with a 5.2 A1c, my cholesterol has dropped further into the normal range as well, and the pounds are melting off... my wedding rings are about to fall off, and I've been married for 12 years.

If it was simply the amount of fat - those of us on here doing high fat / low carb, and the whole primal/paleo movement would not be seeing the improvements in health that they are.

Once again, it's a study that doesn't really do much other than sensationalize "HIGH FAT = DIABETES" without really dissecting the diet at all.

Also... "Low, moderate, and high" are all subjective as stated in previous posts. I know I don't consume as many calories as I was before when I ate whatever I wanted, but my ratio of fat to carb makes it a high fat diet in most people's eyes.

 

[beefy]

My favorite part of the report was this:

"The observation that beta cell malfunction significantly contributes to multiple disease signs, including insulin resistance, was unexpected. "

Really? That's interesting since it's well known the role of pancreatic beta cells in diabetes as well as insulin-resistance... Why this would surprise anyone is beyond me...

 

[beefy]

Most of what I'm seeing lately would suggest that a diet both high in carbohydrate (especially refined carbs) as well as high in fat (especially less-healthy fats and trans-fats) is what's leading to the insulin-resistance/obesity/diabetes issues.

 

[Shalynne]

Genetics is utterly ignored as a factor in Type 2. All I can offer here is that obesity did not appear in my D-family before high-fructose-corn-syrup drenched all of our foods.

Also, in addition to our need to know what the mice ate, I'd also need to know how much.

Back in the 70s there was a rash of "discoveries" of "cancer-causing" foods and substances. Now, no doubt a number of those discoveries were valid. But in many cases, mice and rats were force-fed or exposed to amounts of "offending" substances that were, proportionally, impossibly high for human consumption or exposure.

 

[Shalynne]

Sorry ... deleting double post. Connection's acting up!

 

[foxl]

beefy, yeah! Insulin resistance has been identified mostly as in the liver, muscles, fat tissue, or even BRAIN. But oddly, NEVER with the beta cells, themselves.

 

[wdmama]

Yeah Shalynne... Mine is total genetic disposition, but also brought on by the low fat, high carb diet I ate through the beginning of my life - and I was a serious ballet dancer.

My grandmother did develop diabetes in her late 50s, or at least that is when it was discovered, and I am literally her genetic clone - hypothyroidism, diabetes, not to mention looks, body, etc. I have a cousin with the same issues. I am pretty sure she didn't develop it earlier because her diet was different as she was born in the 20s on the coast of North Carolina and ate a diet heavy in seafood and garden grown vegetables. When the SAD shifted to more processed foods, HFCS, etc. - you can see in her pictures how she gained weight through the years and eventually ended up with diabetes.

She passed away in her 60s and that does scare me to an extent, but my grandfather stopped giving her insulin and proclaimed her healed by God. They did not make any changes to her diet either - at least in terms of carbs.

I am 99% sure this led to her quick deterioration and eventual death.

 

[jwags]

I was always quite thin until my 30's (1980's) . That was the time they started to mess around with the fat and additives in foods. Growing up I ate lots of fat and never gained weight. But when I started to eat fat free, reduced fat items, especially margerines that is when I saw the belly fat start to accumulate. Since I ate a lot of salads I also consumed a lot of salad dressings with HFCS. I would like to see the study studying the effect of HFCS on those mice. I'm sure they will die.

 

[wdmama]

I would like to see the study studying the effect of HFCS on those mice. I'm sure they will die.

But it's NATURAL... it's *just* CORN sugar!

 

[beefy]

But it's NATURAL... it's *just* CORN sugar!

Yeah, and *white* flour is natural, and comes from wheat ... And *white* sugar is natural and comes from things like beets... mmm.... Healthy

Can you imagine the damage we do when we eat things made with White Flour, White Sugar, Trans-Fats and HFCS? Scary, scary stuff. And I'm sure we can go into any grocery store and quickly find things made with ALL FOUR scary ingredients, LOL.

I had to start buying Organic Peanut Butter (or making my own) when I found out my family's favorite brand of peanut butter is made with Trans-Fats (that's how they *REALLY* keep the peanut butter from separating...)

Fast -Food can be really scary ... Most Soda/Pop (non-diet) is made with HFCS... Most buns are made from BOTH White Bread and White Sugar... (Yeast has to eat something) ... Fries *USED* to be made with Trans-Fats ... What a recipe for disaster. (Note: On the fries ... I wish they'd go back to cooking in beef tallow ... I loved french fries cooked in beef tallow... Of course, diabetes makes potatoes difficult/impossible now, but still...)